Illusion Confusion: A figment of my imagination?

[Shadeus]

One school of magic that I've always loved is illusion because of its sheer flexibility. Ever since 3E came out, I have never been able to figure out how silent image, minor image, etc. worked by the rules. How do figments work?

Here's some examples of illusions I'd like to use but am not sure how they would work by the rules:

A illusion of a wall or pit with silent image. Is the only use of this to change a creatures tactics? So you put a big pit in the room so the creatures have to run around it? If its a wall, and the creatures believes it to be a wall, and still tries to run through it, the illusionary wall will do nothing right?

What about a major image of a lightning bolt? Illusions do no real damage, but what about illusionary damage? Or not because figments do not affect people? Can you simulate any damage inflicting spell with a figment?

How about creating creatures? Say you create the illusion of an ogre to fight a bunch of goblins. Now the figment would have AC 9 (10 - large size), right (regardless if the illusion was of the ogre in full-plate)? Can the "ogre" do any damage to foes or does it just delay them? Meaning, can an ogre brain a goblin with its huge club and have it feint unconscious? Or does the club just pass through the goblin?

 

[Thanee]

Well, for the last one, with the higher versions of the figment line of spells, you surely can create creatures, and if the opponents fail their save (for interacting with them) when they fight them, they'll probably be kept busy for a while.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

The pit is impossible. You cannot let something appear differently.

You can close a pit, by creating a figment of floor where is none, but not the other way around.

Damaging spells are useless, since you deal no damage. You might make people duck for cover, but they will realize that nothing happend to them, if they are within the area of effect.

About the creature... as soon as the figment is hit, I suppose, that the opponent notices the illusion automatically.

Bye
Thanee

 

[0-hr]

It's important to keep in mind that the victim automatically succeeds at their disbelief save if faced with incontrovertible proof. So if hit with a lightning bolt, it would cause no damage and thus be automatically disbelieved. Same with a fake fireball, even with fake "thermal" effects. It feel really hot, but doesn't actually hurt or cause harm, thus it must be fake.


The same applies to fake walls that you shoot an arrow at. The arrow goes though, it must be fake (unless the illusion includes little holes in the wall that the arrow might have gone through). A fake floor does not support you - you fall through - and realize it is fake.

For a creature, some effects suggest that an illusion hit is automatically disbelieved unless the caster makes the illusion react appropriately. I'm not sure if that is the general case.

It might help to imagine these spells like a hologram - they can add stuff to the environment, or hide stuff already there, but not take it away or make it invisible. You can't make someone invisible, but you could put a stone column around them (thus hiding them completely). You could not make a pit (or any other fake perspective effect), in my opinion.

 

[Shadeus]

How does fighting illusionary creatures work then? Won't the illusion be revealed the moment the creature "hits" its victim?

 

[allenw]

If you're fighting an illusion, you're interacting, so you get a Will save. If that illusion is a figment, if it hits you or you hit it and you don't feel the blow, you've got proof that the illusion isn't real, and therefore auto-save.
If you want to do direct damage with an illusion, you've got to use a shadow (such as Shadow Conjuration) or sometimes a phantasm (such as Phantasmal Killer).

As it happens, many of these questions are addressed in the PHB and SRD:

Illusion
Illusion spells deceive the senses or minds of others. They cause people to see things that are not there, not see things that are there, hear phantom noises, or remember things that never happened.

Figment: A figment spell creates a false sensation. Those who perceive the figment perceive the same thing, not their own slightly different versions of the figment. (It is not a personalized mental impression.) Figments cannot make something seem to be something else. A figment that includes audible effects cannot duplicate intelligible speech unless the spell description specifically says it can. If intelligible speech is possible, it must be in a language you can speak. If you try to duplicate a language you cannot speak, the image produces gibberish. Likewise, you cannot make a visual copy of something unless you know what it looks like.

Because figments and glamers (see below) are unreal, they cannot produce real effects the way that other types of illusions can. They cannot cause damage to objects or creatures, support weight, provide nutrition, or provide protection from the elements. Consequently, these spells are useful for confounding or delaying foes, but useless for attacking them directly.

A figment’s AC is equal to 10 + its size modifier.

Glamer: A glamer spell changes a subject’s sensory qualities, making it look, feel, taste, smell, or sound like something else, or even seem to disappear.

Pattern: Like a figment, a pattern spell creates an image that others can see, but a pattern also affects the minds of those who see it or are caught in it. All patterns are mind-affecting spells.

Phantasm: A phantasm spell creates a mental image that usually only the caster and the subject (or subjects) of the spell can perceive. This impression is totally in the minds of the subjects. It is a personalized mental impression. (It’s all in their heads and not a fake picture or something that they actually see.) Third parties viewing or studying the scene don’t notice the phantasm. All phantasms are mind-affecting spells.

Shadow: A shadow spell creates something that is partially real from extradimensional energy. Such illusions can have real effects. Damage dealt by a shadow illusion is real.

Saving Throws and Illusions (Disbelief): Creatures encountering an illusion usually do not receive saving throws to recognize it as illusory until they study it carefully or interact with it in some fashion.

A successful saving throw against an illusion reveals it to be false, but a figment or phantasm remains as a translucent outline.

A failed saving throw indicates that a character fails to notice something is amiss. A character faced with proof that an illusion isn’t real needs no saving throw. If any viewer successfully disbelieves an illusion and communicates this fact to others, each such viewer gains a saving throw with a +4 bonus.

 

[Shadeus]

So figments are relatively useless. Okay, thanks for the info.

 

[Thanee]

They are tremendously useful, actually.

You just have to use them in a way, that the target cannot interact (i.e. touch, speak to, etc.) with them.

Simple examples: An illusion of a group of enemies coming closer in a distance. False floor over a pit trap. False wall in a corridor.

Figments can make great diversions or traps.

Bye
Thanee