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<blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 6884640" data-attributes="member: 48965">Because hope springs eternal...No my point was exactly what I said... &quot;I don't see 5e's class abilities as any more vague or ill defined than 4e's or 3e's...... not seeing a difference between this and 5e...&quot;You're the one making the sweeping generalizations about editions, I never actually said I agreed with any of them.Relative to what?&nbsp; You're claiming the DM can ratchet up challenges and I think it's self evident he can ratchet them down so what exactly is the determination of your effectiveness &quot;relative&quot; to?&nbsp; &nbsp; So we aren't really even talking about systems here (even though like I said you seem to infer that 5e's rules are nearly non-existent whenever you talk about the edition). You also admit that ultimately in any edition the DM always has final say...&nbsp; Yeah not much to argue about now that you've clarified and backtracked the original statements to the point that it almost seems like you're saying something entirely different from the original post.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Imaro, post: 6884640, member: 48965"] Because hope springs eternal... No my point was exactly what I said... [I]"I don't see 5e's class abilities as any more vague or ill defined than 4e's or 3e's...... not seeing a difference between this and 5e..."[/I] You're the one making the sweeping generalizations about editions, I never actually said I agreed with any of them. Relative to what? You're claiming the DM can ratchet up challenges and I think it's self evident he can ratchet them down so what exactly is the determination of your effectiveness "relative" to? So we aren't really even talking about systems here (even though like I said you seem to infer that 5e's rules are nearly non-existent whenever you talk about the edition). You also admit that ultimately in any edition the DM always has final say... Yeah not much to argue about now that you've clarified and backtracked the original statements to the point that it almost seems like you're saying something entirely different from the original post. [/QUOTE]

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