I'm going to run a 1e game

[Delta]

ALSO - quick question... On the combat tables and repeating 20's. I used THAC0 more than I ever used these tables, and they are messing with my brain. Say I'm a 1st-level fighter. I have a +2 to-hit from strength. If I am unfortunate enough to be attacking a foe with a -5 AC, do I need to roll an 18 to-hit, just like if my foe had a 0 AC?

Could be either, actually. See top of DMG p. 82. There's an option there to either (a) treat it like any other number, or (b) treat the second "20" as meaning "natural 20 only".

When dealing with THACO/attack bonuses, I treat a natural 20 as "25", which is more like option (a) but synchs up with the 21+ numbers that come later.

 

[Obryn]

Could be either, actually. See top of DMG p. 82. There's an option there to either (a) treat it like any other number, or (b) treat the second "20" as meaning "natural 20 only".

When dealing with THACO/attack bonuses, I treat a natural 20 as "25", which is more like option (a) but synchs up with the 21+ numbers that come later.

Yeah, I decided more or less to adopt the system you presented, with the target number of 20, for attack rolls. It's very simple and intuitive. The only difference is that fighters use their level -1.

-O

 

[Obryn]

Okay, another question, perhaps silly.

Regarding XP. Here's how I read it...

(1) GP and magic item XP is awarded to PCs who own it after they bring it/them safely home. This is easily divided-up, since you have what you leave with.

(2) Creature XP is a bit trickier. As I read it, PCs count for 1 share of XP, henchmen count as 1/2 share of XP, and hirelings don't seem to get any XP. So, if the group was 6 PCs, 2 henchmen, and 4 mercenaries, assuming all participated and whatnot, I'd divide XP by 7. Each PC would get a full share, and each henchman a half-share. The mercenaries, who can't advance, get nothing.

Is that correct? Or should I just divide by 12, give each PC 1 share, each henchman a half-share, and the hirelings' XP vanishes?

Sorry for the questions. I know I never did it right when I was a kid!

-O

 

[MerricB]

Okay, another question, perhaps silly.

Regarding XP. Here's how I read it...

(1) GP and magic item XP is awarded to PCs who own it after they bring it/them safely home. This is easily divided-up, since you have what you leave with.

(2) Creature XP is a bit trickier. As I read it, PCs count for 1 share of XP, henchmen count as 1/2 share of XP, and hirelings don't seem to get any XP. So, if the group was 6 PCs, 2 henchmen, and 4 mercenaries, assuming all participated and whatnot, I'd divide XP by 7. Each PC would get a full share, and each henchman a half-share. The mercenaries, who can't advance, get nothing.

Is that correct? Or should I just divide by 12, give each PC 1 share, each henchman a half-share, and the hirelings' XP vanishes?

Sorry for the questions. I know I never did it right when I was a kid!

-O

It's the last. You divide the XP by twelve (the number of characters that participated in slaying the monsters). Each PC gets that amount, henchmen get half, hirelings nothing.

Cheers!

 

[Delta]

I agree with Obryn's first suggestion. Divide by 7 in the example.

Edit: Well, I take some of that back. Based on language in PHB p. 39 and DMG p. 85 I see technically the division happening before the halving for henchmen.

However, I don't see any language about exactly what happens for hirelings. The only thing I can find is the mercenary serjeant, et. al., saying "incapable of progressing upwards" in level. So personally I would discount them entirely. Divide by 8 in the example, henchmen's shares then get halved.

 

[MerricB]

I agree with Obryn's first suggestion. Divide by 7 in the example.

DMG page 85:

"Example: A party of 12 characters encounters monsters; in the ensuing battle all characters fight, 2 are slain, and the x.p. for monsters killed total 4,300, so each survivor gains 430 - adiusted for difficulty and for being actual player characters or halved for henchman characters."

Note you only count surviving characters.

Cheers!

 

[T. Foster]

Your #1 is correct. For #2 you should divide by 8 -- the 6 PCs each get a full share, the 2 classed henchmen get half a share (and the other XP are "lost"), and the unclassed hirelings neither gain XP nor are they counted in the split.

Note, though, that before dividing XP you're supposed to first total the party's levels* and compare it to the monsters' total HD (counting special abilities and hit point bonuses as extra levels) and if the ratio is more than 1:1 (i.e. the total party levels are higher than total adjusted monster HD) the XP reward is pro-rated (e.g. if a party with 12 total levels defeats 9 HD worth of monsters they only earn 3/4 the normal XP amount from the encounter (including treasure gained from it)).

Note also this wonderfully ambiguous and open-ended passage at the bottom of 1E DMG p. 84:

Tricking or outwitting monsters or overcoming tricks and/or traps placed to guard treasure must be determined subjectively, with level of experience balanced against the degree of difficulty you assign to the gaining of the treasure.

Make of that what you will...

*the book doesn't actually say one way or the other, but personally I would include 0-level hirelings in this calculation, counting them as 1st level characters

 

[MerricB]

Your #1 is correct. For #2 you should divide by 8 -- the 6 PCs each get a full share, the 2 classed henchmen get half a share (and the other XP are "lost"), and the unclassed hirelings neither gain XP nor are they counted in the split.

They should be included in the split, IMO.

Does a 1st level PC who attacks an ogre with 30 men-at-arms have the same experience as attacking on his own? By no means! Even a 1st level PC plus 4 men-at-arms will find it a much easier experience than alone.

Cheers!

 

[Obryn]

Well, in the end, since it looks like it's as ambiguous as it seems to me, I'll just make a ruling that encourages what I want.

I want my players to hire mercenaries and the like, and acquire henchmen, so I figure I should make sure the reward structure encourages this. I'll go with T Foster's suggestion, except in oddball scenarios like MerricB's, where the PCs are just playing a bit part.

Also, I think I'll houserule that all participants (even non-surviving ones) should get XP. I want to encourage them to keep henchmen, perhaps magically heal them, and not just leave them to die in order to get more XP.

I saw the proportional XP, but I don't know that I want to bother with it. It seems to me that it will only make a miniscule difference in most cases, and I don't know that it's a profitable enough work:enjoyment ratio.

-O

 

[RFisher]

Well, in the end, since it looks like it's as ambiguous as it seems to me, I'll just make a ruling that encourages what I want.

Yeah. There’s some value in figuring out what’s written, but just do whatever you want. (^_^)

I saw the proportional XP, but I don't know that I want to bother with it.

My understanding is that this bit was there to further discourage “slumming”. High level PCs hanging out on the first few levels of the dungeon just to rack up XP with little risk.

What you do is ignore it until/unless to see the slumming problem. Only then do you start using it confident that the book is backing you up on this when the players complain. (^_^)