Level Up (A5E) I'm worried that Create Water will break my party's cleric.

Stalker0

Legend
So I have finally kicked off my survival focused game. The players have been dropped into the wilderness, with 138 souls to help feed, with low supplies, some broken weapons, and armor....and a very hostile wilderness.

First session went pretty well. We established a lot, tried out some journey checks, etc. I decided to go with a hybrid of the simple and advanced supply systems. I did not split water and food but I did require "supply containers". So most PCs have 2-3 containers for supply, so only a limited number of days of supplies should they adventure beyond the main group. And I require that they consume supply everyday, so they either have to focus their day on "hunt/gather" or get supplies through some other source. In other words, in my game, the journey never really stops, because there is no civilization.

My concern right now is the 3rd level cleric who has Create Water. Even at this low a level he could supply 4 PCs everyday with just his 1st level slots, not even 2nd. Now gamewise I am not too worried about that, there will be lots of hostile situations, and so the cleric will be out of most of their spells and that will cause a lot of issue when the frying pan meets the fire.

My bigger worry is this is putting too much burden on the cleric. It feels a little like 2e where clerics were pressured to always have heal spells prepared in most of their slots or watch their fellow party members die. Now I'm worried the cleric is going to get pressured, basically give up a spell slot to allow another player to do something other than hunt/gather. So either the cleric gives up a spell, or the other player "wastes their day" just doing basic survival, and I worry that the other players will get upset if the cleric decides to keep their slots.


It may be a phantom fear, just something I'm noting with this spell because it is "only" a 1st level slot it seems like a waste not to use it for supply. If people have thoughts and advice let me know, otherwise I'll let you all know how it goes in the next few sessions.

Edit: Actually an idea just came to me I might try. I may assume that the cleric does all of his create water at the end of the day. That way if a hostile situation comes, he can use his slots. But...that also means there may be a supply shortage and therefore fatigue. That may be a good compromise, the party still gambles by not focusing on survival, but the cleric doesn't have to feel so pressured to have no slots all day.
 

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lichmaster

Adventurer
This setup can create a lot of interesting and unexpected results, that could go very well and make a fun and memorable way, or go exactly the opposite direction.

A few comments/reasonings:
  • Casting this spell requires only an action and a spell slot. I agree that burning all spell slots just to feed other people will definitely feel like a chore for the player of the Cleric, but I also expect that there should be other things the character can do in a day even without those slots. On the flip side, I feel it would also be a chore for the other characters if all they would do in a day would be hunting/gathering. Also because one day would mean rolling a few dice, burning a few spell slots, and then be done? Or having an encounter with one less pc because he's away hunting?
  • The cleric will immediately be seen as an extremely important person, because in less than a minute he would be able to conjure enough supply to feed 4 people. Given this power and responsibility, it would be totally fair if he immediately gained reverence and respect from everyone, and probably a position of command. This is ripe for RP opportunities, you could also give some free followers to the character (to lessen the burden of those spent spell slots so often), maybe you could also conceive the "caravan" as a moving stronghold, based on the encampment.
  • As you said, the spell slots could be used to cast this spell only at the end of the day, so after most of the adventuring should be done. I'd expect some night encounters though. Once or twice it could be an interesting challenge to place such an encounter when the cleric has no more spell slots, but I'd refrain to do it too often.
  • You could consider giving out a magic item that may support the cleric in this role. Either a jug of water that refills X times per day, or maybe a rare version of the Create Water spell that can be cast as a ritual. This last option could be very interesting, as the casting time would make it expensive in terms of time, but not burn away precious resources. If you give this spell after a period of strain on the party, with an appropriate quest (finding an old temple and cleansing it from evil, helping the spirit of a waterfall, etc), it could feel extremely rewarding and an actual turning point in the overall journey
 

aco175

Legend
Are the players on board with the type of game you want to play? In survival mode, the PCs need to put survival first and the NPCs 2nd, and then adventuring for gold. They might get to be scouts in front of the main group, but the cleric now becomes too needed to go with them. You want to keep the group together to have fun and the players want to stay together as well, then I would say that you are the DM.

Figure out a way to give the players both. Maybe they find another healer that can do some of this or an item that creates food and water1/day. Maybe the players are not on board and you just make water more readily available. Maybe there is a supply caravan of orcs that are carrying wagons of food and water. There must me several TV stows that follow this line and you can steal ideas from them. Battlestar Galactica? Lost in Space?

You can also have many more problems than just food and water. The NPCs may fraction into groups that follow the PCs and a group that follow the civilian leader. Who determines the best trail to follow? Where the group sleeps? You may get raids from kobolds along the way and eventually the PCs may need to kill them off before the long trek through the wastes else you will not have enough food.

You could even modify the spell. Maybe in a desert the water created is only half or quarter. Players may think you are punishing them, but it may be logical. When the group levels up, the other PCs could take a level of cleric to make more water.
 



Faolyn

(she/her)
This is errata -- the spell creates 10 gallons of non-potable water, but no Supply.
Can non-potable water be boiled and made potable? Or have purify food and drink cast on it? Or for the latter, no because it doesn't create Supply which can then be affected by the spell?
 




Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Can non-potable water be boiled and made potable? Or have purify food and drink cast on it? Or for the latter, no because it doesn't create Supply which can then be affected by the spell?
You'd need to read the description of purify food and drink.
 

South by Southwest

Incorrigible Daydreamer
All nonmagical food and drink within a 5-foot-radius sphere centered on a point of your choice within range is purified and rendered free of poison and disease.
It isn't fully clear to me, though, what it means for the food and drink to be nonmagical. "It cannot have been magically created??" Or just, "It cannot itself possess magical properties?"
 

Cadence

Legend
Supporter
This is errata -- the spell creates 10 gallons of non-potable water, but no Supply.

When was that errataed? The AG I have marked _v2a has:

"Create Water: You fill the target with up to 10 gallons of nonpotable water or 1 Supply of clean water. Alternatively, the water falls as rain that extinguishes exposed flames in the area."
 

Anselm

Adventurer
You'd need to read the description of purify food and drink.
I like the double wombo combo option of creating supply with multiple 1st level spells. Is it spelled out somewhere how much non-potable water can be turned into supply? IE: If I have a 10 gallon bucket from Create or Destroy water, how many times can I cast Purify Food and Drink on it to gain maximum supply? That's probably super edge casey but what I'm getting at is the equivalency of water = supply from Create or Destroy Water anywhere else as reference?
 

Anselm

Adventurer
When was that errataed? The AG I have marked _v2a has:

"Create Water: You fill the target with up to 10 gallons of nonpotable water or 1 Supply of clean water. Alternatively, the water falls as rain that extinguishes exposed flames in the area."
I would assume its errata to the printed versions.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
IE: If I have a 10 gallon bucket from Create or Destroy water, how many times can I cast Purify Food and Drink on it to gain maximum supply?
If you read those two spells (with the note from above that C/D Water does not create 1 Supply) the answer is 0 times.
 






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