Immediate-action Spell - Revised and Now Named "Kelleris's Antecedent Assailment"

[Fieari]

What's the deal with Chorn's? I don't see any difference...

 

[Nifft]

Funky spells. I like it. Good job everyone!

-- N

 

[Cheiromancer]

Is there a feat that allows a damaging spell to do nonlethal damage? If so, then KAA can be used as a healing spell. The target takes (nonlethal) damage, then is healed for (roughly) the same amount. Since healing applies equally to nonlethal damage and real damage, the character will have real damage healed, although he may have some nonlethal damage afterwards.

The non-paradoxical version cannot be used in this way; the spell only heals the damage caused by the spell, and if only nonlethal damage is caused, only nonlethal damage will be healed.

Another idle thought: since undead are harmed by healing spells/effects, this spell (when used paradoxically) would seem to be especially effective against undead. First they receive force damage, then they are further damaged by the healing effect the next round.

(Or maybe not. A clever DM would rule that the spell doesn't use positive energy to heal. An equally clever player would remark that healing is an intrinsically creative and positive activity... etc.)

 

[Quip]

I'm not sure about any subdual spell abilities, but the wording of KAA also makes matters complicated for critical hits and sneak attacks, which would do far more damage than would be undone. Maybe that wouldn't be so bad if it did, actually, but it still seems wierd.

I assume that if a creature was brought to 2 hp by this spell, and was then killed by a 30 hp attack later that round, that the paradox would restore hp starting at -10, or would it count up from -18? That would effectively be like saying the spell didn't happen in the first place, and then appling the damage from the second attack.

And do you need line of sight to the target when you use the ability, when you cast it, or both times?


Hehe, poking holes in these spells is loads of fun.
*poke*

 

[Cheiromancer]

This paradox thing is making my head hurt. Which I suppose is what is supposed to happen.

How about if we try this: the round after the spell takes effect, the caster must cast the spell at the very beginning of the round. If he cannot, he loses all actions that round (including free actions), is treated as flat-footed, and also expends the spell slot.

 

[Chorn]

This paradox thing is making my head hurt. Which I suppose is what is supposed to happen.

Paradox is inherently complex and nonsensical. Part of the reason why it's so much fun to mess around with it.

Undead are only hurt by healing spells because they explicitly say that they use positive energy. Since the correction is based on the wounds being fixed because they just never happened, an undead creature would still be healed of damage same as a construct. Although in my opinion it wouldn't really be out of line for it to effectively deal double damage against undead.

You might apply similar logic when using some nonlethal version to cheat some healing. You'll just end up fixing excess nonlethal damage. But again, having the excess convert into straight healing wouldn't be out of line. By the way, you can find Subdual Substitution in the Divine section of the SRD. It only works on spells with the five energy subtypes. It's also found in Complete Arcane as Nonlethal Substitution where it's taken a slight nerf to exclude sonics and require a one level slot tax.

Are there any complications if you kill youself with it, in order to advoid a more permanent demise?

Ooh. Didn't think about using it to save your own skin. Time hop jumps a target out of the timestream for 1 round/level and it's only a third level Psion/Wilder power. Zapping yourself might not work if you don't kill yourself, but it's only sixth level compared to the autosuccess of the eighth level maze. This all assuming it would bring you back regardless of stuff that might happen to your body in the meantime.

I might be willing to use some other status condition if there was one that worked on undead, constructs, etc.,

Having the backlash stun the caster feels best the way I picture the spell working. As discussed earlier making the backlash ignore immunities can work but there's already a fair bit of legalese in there. If you want a status effect that will work on undead that's similar to being stunned, there's always the weaker dazed condition.

Now I want to say this about your new Bill & Ted spell, Kelleris's time-lost crawler: STOP IT! Quit making such damn cool spells! It is most EXCELLENT.

 

[Quip]

Zapping yourself might not work if you don't kill yourself, but it's only sixth level compared to the autosuccess of the eighth level maze. This all assuming it would bring you back regardless of stuff that might happen to your body in the meantime.

Well if you really wanted to kill youself... I'm not sure but is it possible to CDG oneself with your own ray spell that you haven't cast yet and probably wont because if you succeed you'll most certainly fail?

Having the backlash stun the caster feels best the way I picture the spell working. As discussed earlier making the backlash ignore immunities can work but there's already a fair bit of legalese in there. If you want a status effect that will work on undead that's similar to being stunned, there's always the weaker dazed condition.

Heres an idea, maybe the backlash can knock you out of the timestream for one round, or if that's too advantageous it can be a temporal stasis effect on yourself. That would be something to avoid in a combat situation, and nothing would be immune to it.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Heres an idea, maybe the backlash can knock you out of the timestream for one round, or if that's too advantageous it can be a temporal stasis effect on yourself. That would be something to avoid in a combat situation, and nothing would be immune to it.

Temporal stasis still protects you, doesn't it? What about my idea:

the round after the spell takes effect, the caster must cast the spell at the very beginning of the round. If he cannot, he loses all actions that round (including free actions), is treated as flat-footed, and also expends the spell slot.

 

[Quip]

Temporal stasis still protects you, doesn't it? What about my idea:

Oh that's fine, I was just looking for something a bit more fun. Forgot about the protection though, oops.

I don't think theres anything wrong with saying that the caster becomes "effectively stunned" and that normal stun immunity doesn't apply. That way he drops what he's carrying and gets the -2 penalty to AC as well.