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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 4717794" data-attributes="member: 82106">I'm not exactly sure why it would generally be any more exploitative for PCs to BE flying than to not be flying... Consider, many spells have ranges of 20 squares. A monster falling from that height will take 7d10 damage. That is already FAR beyond anything characters below epic tier can normally deliver for damage. So, regardless of whether or not the PCs are themselves flying, they possess a potent form of attack against flying monsters, at practically any level. Now, every flying monster could simply fly at treetop altitude at all times, etc. but the potential is there.I really don't understand the attitude that says "well, all flying is just restricted to higher tier adventurers." I don't think that is really a reasonable stance to take either. Lower level characters could also fly around only at treetop height and thus avoid most deadly fall situations, but that is still simply putting a fairly arbitrary sort of restriction on what types of environments heroic characters can adventure in. What convincing argument exists for having such a restriction in the game? I don't see one. The problem IMHO was that the designers decided to use a skill check to halt crashing. Once they made that decision it pretty much HAD to be a high DC because otherwise it would be a trivial check for most of the higher level flying creatures, and they didn't want to make it a free pass for anyone. Using a saving throw simply avoids that problem entirely. In fact to a certain extent it makes flying MORE dangerous for some of the really high level creatures. Consider that an Ancient Black Dragon would have an athletics rating of +21, and a bonus of +10 for flying speed, thus it would normally only crash on a 1 simply 'taking 10' will obviate any chance of it crashing from above 110 squares. The same dragon requiring a save would succeed on a 5+, so it now has 4x the chance of crashing, though the probability is against it in either case. My suggestion also provides a check even below 110 squares for the dragon, so it is really fairly debatable which situation is more hazardous. In general monsters flying near the ground will crash approximately half as often if they get a save. Lower level PCs would rarely make the DC30 check normally unless their mounts are much higher level than they are, and would face practically certain death below 100 or so squares. This way they have roughly a 50% chance of only being grounded, possibly less if they happen to be above about 200 squares (though it strikes me that flying that high doesn't particularly seem like a good idea in any case). Remember, a mounted PC still has to make another save to stay in the saddle if he's knocked prone, and is AUTOMATICALLY dismounted if the mount is knocked prone (in a flying situation you might also grant a save for this).No matter what sort of rules you use for flying combat, it IS going to be quite dangerous and PCs are likely to fall often. Why make it pure suicide? A heroic character flying at lower altitudes aught to have some chance of surviving a crash without massive damage IMHO. It isn't going to somehow degrade the game any, it just opens up a few more adventure opportunities.</blockquote>

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