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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Upper_Krust" data-source="post: 8856924" data-attributes="member: 326">Even if I make them interesting with unique mechanics, I don't think its a good use of space. Maybe Umbral in general works best as a Template.I have a few minor Umbral elements in the new 5E book as well as this really cool (I hope) Umbral War idea that is going on which I think is a great jumping on point for Byssal adventures. But I will explain that in the book.I know. But its a niche (epic) within a niche (super-dense stat-blocks of 3E) and if you can get the exact same "feeling" of epic play but narrow the focus so you don't have to remember a big laundry list of abilities/options, then I think its a step in the right direction in terms of opening it up to more people to try.Demogorgon is remembered for his Gaze Attacks, Tentacle Rot and Tail Energy Drain, not his spell attacks, feats and divine abilities (arguably you could even say his Gaze, Tentacle & Tail attacks are his divine abilities though).</blockquote>I always maintained I thought it was functionally balanced up until Greater God levels. But certainly you have seen vastly far more 3.5E immortal games than me, so I would defer to you on that point.Yeah there are things I am converting over to 5E and you just think how the heck can I make this or that crazy power actually feasible at the game table...then you do. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Epic Players are, either directly or indirectly, Power Gamers. One of the new dynamics planned in 5E gives DMs a LOT more of a carte blanche approach to pushing back onto PCs and creating super-tough encounters.I think even at high level 5E though, which has only a fraction of the complications of 3.5E, which itself has only a fraction of the working parts of 3.5E ultra high level, players (and DMs) can get bogged down with too many options and there will be a tipping point of this 'game breadth/depth' where you just lose them. My goal is to minimise that risk but still have every Divine Rank mean something.[/QUOTE]

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