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Immortals Handbook - Epic Bestiary (Epic Monster Discussion)
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<blockquote data-quote="paradox42" data-source="post: 3064086" data-attributes="member: 29746"><p>Ah, glad to have yesterday done with- extremely busy and nasty day that was.</p><p></p><p></p><p>For the make-your-own-template rules, you mean? I admit I haven't looked at them since 0.6, so I'm not all that familiar with them. I'll defer to your judgment here. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sounds good, though it somehow doesn't strike me as "EPIC!!!" enough. I have a nagging feeling that there's a good, flavorful thing we could attach to this to make the blood drain the creature's signature ability, the one everybody thinks of when thinking of an Erythreon; just draining CON to gain hit points- even if it is a lot of hit points- doesn't seem too far off from stuff like, say, Abominations. I honestly can't think of anything but the rather generic suggestion below, at present, though.</p><p></p><p>Perhaps it has some spell-like abilities that are powered by the blood drain somehow? As a variant, we could make a Psionic Erythreon that replenishes its power points every time it drains blood. A city full of victims could give such a creature a practically infinite pool of power to draw upon, if the ability is set up correctly- and that would make for a very memorable encounter.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, that's a good notion, particularly if we go with the ability to drain blood at a distance as well. If the aura not only drains blood, but also energy levels... yeegh! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite9" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":eek:" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>Just need a mechanic for it then. Is it an aura thing? A side effect of the blood drain (perhaps it can cause Rage or Panic, as it chooses)? We seem to be attaching a lot of powers to this thing's aura here- that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it might make the beast seem like kind of a one-note composition.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Tying it to HD strikes me as best, particularly since this is supposed to be a massive threat. Perhaps it can control undead as an evil Cleric of equal HD, or something along those lines? Only the ones it animates of course, but the basic mechanic is already in the rules so we may as well try to use it somehow.</p><p></p><p>As for what they rise as, Wights are a somewhat troublesome choice from UK's "undead natures hierarchy" point of view; Wights are Bone like Liches and Death Knights. Still, they're arguably Flesh as well (like Zombies), so I can see your point here. We can go with Wight for now and consider changing it after the rest of the thing is done to see how it all looks in the whole.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Ah, Water subtype, I hadn't thought of that. Good catch. It should probably have that, agreed- though note that the Water subtype gives it a Swim speed, which seems irrelevant to me since it's Incorporeal as well. But then again, maybe being Incorporeal is enough to ignore the Swim speed feature of the Water subtype.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The example of the Akalich suggests that it should, though it's fair to note that Liches and Death Knights have some immunities that Vampires and Ghosts don't share. I'm reluctant to say the Erythreon should be vulnerable (or at least, not immune) to Fire, since it's so ubiquitous in the game, but what would the argument be for the immunity if it has it? It's basically a cloud of blood vapor, after all, and last time I checked fires are pretty good at eliminating vapor in their immediate areas. On the up side, Sonic is one energy the Erythreon should obviously be immune to- sound would do virtually nothing to disperse a cloud. And since Sonic is usually the preferred energy type of high-level spellcasters given how few things have immunity or resistance to it, that's a good thing for our little creature here.</p><p></p><p></p><p>It's already Incorporeal, and is effectively Gaseous already even if it wasn't, so those are pretty irrelevant, yes. Other spell effects it doesn't get already from its creature types and subtypes? That's a tough one, and I can't think of any right now.</p><p></p><p></p><p>This is, of course, the big one, and the one that should be considered most carefully. Maybe this ties in to its blood drain somehow; that would make the blood drain seem even more important in the overall scheme of things, and give the Erythreon an extra defense to boot. Maybe after it drains blood from a living creature, it gains some semblance of life for a brief period of time? Something to remove its vulnerability to undead-smashing effects, perhaps Positive Energy Protection? If the blood retains some of the life that was in the drained victim, before the original blood cloud can fully assimilate it, that could give us a rather unique flavor excuse to add some very interesting defenses and powers indeed...</p><p></p><p>EDIT: Aha! Here's an idea that just hit me. Thinking back on the movie "Phantoms," that monster had a very interesting ability to recreate the bodies of its victims and use them to torment those it hadn't yet eaten. What if the Erythreon can use the blood it takes from a victim to form a blood-duplicate, a sort of ghostlike manifestsation of the victim that's completely under the Erythreon's control? It's sort of like making the blood drain into a Mirror of Opposition, though the blood-duplicates should probably be of lesser stature (like, say, a <em>Simulacrum</em> as opposed to a <em>Clone</em>). Perhaps we even tie it to the blood drain in such a way that as the victim gets drained more, the duplicate gets more powerful, until the real victim finally dies and the duplicate is all that's left of its life (the body can then animate as a Wight or whatever, or not, at the Erythreon's whim). That last effect is probably too complex to write good rules for, but I think something along these lines could be a <strong>very</strong> nasty and creepy power for a creature to exhibit.</p><p></p><p>EDIT II: It also occurs to me that many of the powers of this creature so far are tied to the blood, i.e., its Vampire nature. What about the Ghost side of things? It's equally likely to evolve from a ghost, right? Ghosts have one really obvious defense that Vampires don't share- their Rejuvenation ability, which prevents them from being permanently destroyed until something special is done- unique to every ghost. Perhaps an Erythreon has something similar- say, if it's destroyed but all the little blood motes aren't found, or even one of its partially-drained victims survives, then it can reform itself a few nights later and start rampaging again? If we go with this though, what can actually kill it? There has to be something.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="paradox42, post: 3064086, member: 29746"] Ah, glad to have yesterday done with- extremely busy and nasty day that was. For the make-your-own-template rules, you mean? I admit I haven't looked at them since 0.6, so I'm not all that familiar with them. I'll defer to your judgment here. :) Sounds good, though it somehow doesn't strike me as "EPIC!!!" enough. I have a nagging feeling that there's a good, flavorful thing we could attach to this to make the blood drain the creature's signature ability, the one everybody thinks of when thinking of an Erythreon; just draining CON to gain hit points- even if it is a lot of hit points- doesn't seem too far off from stuff like, say, Abominations. I honestly can't think of anything but the rather generic suggestion below, at present, though. Perhaps it has some spell-like abilities that are powered by the blood drain somehow? As a variant, we could make a Psionic Erythreon that replenishes its power points every time it drains blood. A city full of victims could give such a creature a practically infinite pool of power to draw upon, if the ability is set up correctly- and that would make for a very memorable encounter. Yes, that's a good notion, particularly if we go with the ability to drain blood at a distance as well. If the aura not only drains blood, but also energy levels... yeegh! :eek: Just need a mechanic for it then. Is it an aura thing? A side effect of the blood drain (perhaps it can cause Rage or Panic, as it chooses)? We seem to be attaching a lot of powers to this thing's aura here- that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it might make the beast seem like kind of a one-note composition. Tying it to HD strikes me as best, particularly since this is supposed to be a massive threat. Perhaps it can control undead as an evil Cleric of equal HD, or something along those lines? Only the ones it animates of course, but the basic mechanic is already in the rules so we may as well try to use it somehow. As for what they rise as, Wights are a somewhat troublesome choice from UK's "undead natures hierarchy" point of view; Wights are Bone like Liches and Death Knights. Still, they're arguably Flesh as well (like Zombies), so I can see your point here. We can go with Wight for now and consider changing it after the rest of the thing is done to see how it all looks in the whole. Ah, Water subtype, I hadn't thought of that. Good catch. It should probably have that, agreed- though note that the Water subtype gives it a Swim speed, which seems irrelevant to me since it's Incorporeal as well. But then again, maybe being Incorporeal is enough to ignore the Swim speed feature of the Water subtype. The example of the Akalich suggests that it should, though it's fair to note that Liches and Death Knights have some immunities that Vampires and Ghosts don't share. I'm reluctant to say the Erythreon should be vulnerable (or at least, not immune) to Fire, since it's so ubiquitous in the game, but what would the argument be for the immunity if it has it? It's basically a cloud of blood vapor, after all, and last time I checked fires are pretty good at eliminating vapor in their immediate areas. On the up side, Sonic is one energy the Erythreon should obviously be immune to- sound would do virtually nothing to disperse a cloud. And since Sonic is usually the preferred energy type of high-level spellcasters given how few things have immunity or resistance to it, that's a good thing for our little creature here. It's already Incorporeal, and is effectively Gaseous already even if it wasn't, so those are pretty irrelevant, yes. Other spell effects it doesn't get already from its creature types and subtypes? That's a tough one, and I can't think of any right now. This is, of course, the big one, and the one that should be considered most carefully. Maybe this ties in to its blood drain somehow; that would make the blood drain seem even more important in the overall scheme of things, and give the Erythreon an extra defense to boot. Maybe after it drains blood from a living creature, it gains some semblance of life for a brief period of time? Something to remove its vulnerability to undead-smashing effects, perhaps Positive Energy Protection? If the blood retains some of the life that was in the drained victim, before the original blood cloud can fully assimilate it, that could give us a rather unique flavor excuse to add some very interesting defenses and powers indeed... EDIT: Aha! Here's an idea that just hit me. Thinking back on the movie "Phantoms," that monster had a very interesting ability to recreate the bodies of its victims and use them to torment those it hadn't yet eaten. What if the Erythreon can use the blood it takes from a victim to form a blood-duplicate, a sort of ghostlike manifestsation of the victim that's completely under the Erythreon's control? It's sort of like making the blood drain into a Mirror of Opposition, though the blood-duplicates should probably be of lesser stature (like, say, a [i]Simulacrum[/i] as opposed to a [i]Clone[/i]). Perhaps we even tie it to the blood drain in such a way that as the victim gets drained more, the duplicate gets more powerful, until the real victim finally dies and the duplicate is all that's left of its life (the body can then animate as a Wight or whatever, or not, at the Erythreon's whim). That last effect is probably too complex to write good rules for, but I think something along these lines could be a [b]very[/b] nasty and creepy power for a creature to exhibit. EDIT II: It also occurs to me that many of the powers of this creature so far are tied to the blood, i.e., its Vampire nature. What about the Ghost side of things? It's equally likely to evolve from a ghost, right? Ghosts have one really obvious defense that Vampires don't share- their Rejuvenation ability, which prevents them from being permanently destroyed until something special is done- unique to every ghost. Perhaps an Erythreon has something similar- say, if it's destroyed but all the little blood motes aren't found, or even one of its partially-drained victims survives, then it can reform itself a few nights later and start rampaging again? If we go with this though, what can actually kill it? There has to be something. [/QUOTE]
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