Immortals Handbook - Epic Bestiary (Epic Monster Discussion)

Upper_Krust

Adventurer
Hi all! :)

This thread is to discuss the Immortals Handbook - Epic Bestiary: Volumes One, Two and Three, as well as just epic monsters in particular.

What monsters did you like in the Bestiary? What monsters were poor? What types of monsters do you want to see more of? Were the monsters not powerful enough, too powerful, or was the balance just right?

Or, do you think you could do better? Post any original monster ideas here (for Immortals Handbook: Epic Bestiary derived monsters I'll create a seperate thread), if they are good enough I may ask your permission to put them in a future volume of the Epic Bestiary. ;)

For more information on the contents of each Volume of the Epic Bestiary (Volumes 2 and 3 have about 95% of their content determined) have a look here:

www.immortalshandbook.com/immortalshandbook.htm
 
hello

Hello pal!
was thinking about the ECL of Alabaster:
117(warrior)+8(Vampire)+111(Amidah)=236
If Cr is only 2/3 of ECL: it's challenge rating would be 155 not 139?
 

historian

Visitor
I liked everything and loved:

1. Angels
2. Dragons (particularly the Titanium and Polychromatic)
3. Cicatrix
4. Orichalcum Constructs
5. Artifacts

Also, here's a quick listing of monsters that play particularly tough for their CR:

1. Elohim
2. Orichalcum Golem
3. Nexus Dragon
4. Alabaster (although this depends on the "Power Set" matched up against)

I haven't run across anything that plays under its CR. :)
 

Upper_Krust

Adventurer
Hello again matey! :)

Rockhoward56 said:
Hello pal!
was thinking about the ECL of Alabaster:
117(warrior)+8(Vampire)+111(Amidah)=236
If Cr is only 2/3 of ECL: it's challenge rating would be 155 not 139?
That must be a mistake.

Incidently, he's CR 163 in the print version.

Amidah +120, +117 Levels +8 Vampire.

Although his weapons changed a tiny bit, enchantment bonuses mostly.
 

Upper_Krust

Adventurer
Hiya mate! :)

historian said:
I liked everything and loved:

1. Angels
2. Dragons (particularly the Titanium and Polychromatic)
3. Cicatrix
4. Orichalcum Constructs
5. Artifacts
I think I probably had at least one dragon too many, probably two too many, considering the Seraphim is a 'sort of' dragon.

I also probably had one too many Golems.

I don't think I had enough undead. So expect slightly less Dragons and Golems in future Volumes and more Undead.

Out of curiousity, what was it about Cicatrix you really liked?

historian said:
Also, here's a quick listing of monsters that play particularly tough for their CR:

1. Elohim
2. Orichalcum Golem
3. Nexus Dragon
4. Alabaster (although this depends on the "Power Set" matched up against)

I haven't run across anything that plays under its CR. :)
Most of the monster CR's actually dropped a few points in the print version. So they definately are not going to play under their CR's in the print version. ;)
 

historian

Visitor
Hey U_K! :)

I think I probably had at least one dragon too many, probably two too many, considering the Seraphim is a 'sort of' dragon.

I also probably had one too many Golems.

I don't think I had enough undead. So expect slightly less Dragons and Golems in future Volumes and more Undead.
I for one can't wait to see the Nosferatu template and would love to see more IH-level undead although I think the Akalich and Alabaster (though not an undead entry per se) give you a good bit of mileage.

You've probably already got more EL worth of undead than the entirety of Libris Mortis!

Fortunately for us all you don't price your stuff by the totality of EL contained therein. :p

Out of curiousity, what was it about Cicatrix you really liked?
I think he is a wonderful manifestation of the concept of indiscriminate, neutral evil. He takes his victims as he finds them. He has developed methods by which he can torture undead and constructs. In one chamber he might be torturing an intelligent artifact, in another, the lord of Earth's vampires.

Very, very inspired.
 
U_K!
I agree with historian, You did pretty much cover Dragons and Golems in the first bestiary, so I dont think future volumes will have more than one or two of either. Immortal-level undead are interesting, like the Hunefer from the Epic Handbook (Such an evil creature. Demiliches may be tough, but an epic Cleric/Hunefer is way worse). The King Wight template you list in you table of "what is to come" also sounds nasty. Very Zombie-lord-ish.
I think most creature types could find epic-level applications. (Though Fey are the hardest to justify outside of the CR 30 range) Golems are the easiest - Just use harder, cooler materials.
Can't wait for the 2nd bestiary, even if it is a while off, it will be sweet. Any plans for a preface in it to explain new stuff? Like spillover epic/divine etc powers that didn't make the Ascension cut.
 
Ltheb Silverfrond said:
(Though Fey are the hardest to justify outside of the CR 30 range)
Hmm. Fey are representative of aspects of nature, so you just need to think of bigger and better aspects. Apart from Titania/The Queen of Air and Darkness/etc, who are specific NPCs when new generic monsters would be better, I can think of the following concepts for epic Fey:

  • An oozelike creature representative of the bacteriological ecosystem that underpins all planetary biospheres, and was the first life to appear on planets where evolution took its natural course (on these planets it is probably responsible for the chemical nature of the environment today, just as our oxygen atmosphere was created by photosynthesising bacteria back in the day).
  • An undead fey (okay, this is really an undead concept I guess. Close enough though) created by the death of an entire planet's ecosystem due to whatever cataclysm.
  • A Fey representative of Evolution. With Expert Strike, Fire Baptism and maybe Gravitas and lots of Learned [X] Immunity if it's powerful enough.
  • Bizzare Fey for unusual ecosystems. Fey for creatures that live in stars, or gas giants, or the depths of space (along with appropriately powerful actual creatures for those environments).
  • Fey representative of broad classes of creature, such as all animals, all plants, all bacteria (see idea #1), and so forth.
 

Upper_Krust

Adventurer
Ltheb Silverfrond said:
U_K!
I agree with historian, You did pretty much cover Dragons and Golems in the first bestiary, so I dont think future volumes will have more than one or two of either.
Maybe 3-4 dragons and 1-2 golems in future.

Ltheb Silverfrond said:
Immortal-level undead are interesting, like the Hunefer from the Epic Handbook (Such an evil creature. Demiliches may be tough, but an epic Cleric/Hunefer is way worse).
I have some brilliant Undead in planning don't worry. I also like the idea of a Hunefer Template but its something that will more likely surface on the website. Although I suppose the Hunefer is OGL now anyway...

Ltheb Silverfrond said:
The King Wight template you list in you table of "what is to come" also sounds nasty. Very Zombie-lord-ish.
Super-Death Knights. :D

Ltheb Silverfrond said:
I think most creature types could find epic-level applications. (Though Fey are the hardest to justify outside of the CR 30 range) Golems are the easiest - Just use harder, cooler materials.
I have two Fey: Keteb (Luck Eater) and Pairikas (White Widow).

Ltheb Silverfrond said:
Can't wait for the 2nd bestiary, even if it is a while off, it will be sweet. Any plans for a preface in it to explain new stuff? Like spillover epic/divine etc powers that didn't make the Ascension cut.
I'm sure I will, but no plans at this stage. I come up with new divine powers everytime I have pen and paper in front of me, so I am sure I will have created many between Ascensions release and Volume 2 of the Bestiary.
 

Upper_Krust

Adventurer
Hiya mate! :)

Phantom Llama said:
Hmm. Fey are representative of aspects of nature, so you just need to think of bigger and better aspects. Apart from Titania/The Queen of Air and Darkness/etc, who are specific NPCs when new generic monsters would be better, I can think of the following concepts for epic Fey:

An oozelike creature representative of the bacteriological ecosystem that underpins all planetary biospheres, and was the first life to appear on planets where evolution took its natural course (on these planets it is probably responsible for the chemical nature of the environment today, just as our oxygen atmosphere was created by photosynthesising bacteria back in the day).
Yes I like the book/movie "Phantoms" too. ;)

...don't worry I sort of have this covered, although its not a fey as such, its an ooze called the Prismatic Pudding.

Phantom Llama said:
An undead fey (okay, this is really an undead concept I guess. Close enough though) created by the death of an entire planet's ecosystem due to whatever cataclysm.
Have this covered too, they are called Pitris, again, not Fey though.

Phantom Llama said:
A Fey representative of Evolution. With Expert Strike, Fire Baptism and maybe Gravitas and lots of Learned [X] Immunity if it's powerful enough.

Bizzare Fey for unusual ecosystems. Fey for creatures that live in stars, or gas giants, or the depths of space (along with appropriately powerful actual creatures for those environments).
Interesting Ideas.

Phantom Llama said:
Fey representative of broad classes of creature, such as all animals, all plants, all bacteria (see idea #1), and so forth.
If it represents other creatures then is it Fey though?
 
Upper_Krust said:
If it represents other creatures then is it Fey though?
It could simply be a champion/avatar of the concept. It may not be of that type, but it might champion that cause. (Kind of like a nature-paladin)
 
Upper_Krust said:
Yes I like the book/movie "Phantoms" too. ;)
...Believe it or not I wasn't actually thinking of anything particular when I posted that. I think I may have seen that a while ago though, was that the one with the
giant bacterial colony that IIRC believed it was god
or am I getting confused?


If it represents other creatures then is it Fey though?
Good question. One could make a reasonable case either way. It could be argued that it represents them and their place in nature rather than is one of them, much like the god of fire or humans is an Outsider rather than an Elemental or Humanoid.


Fake Edit: Also I like Mr. Silverfrond's idea.
 

Upper_Krust

Adventurer
Hey Phantom Llama mate! :D

Phantom Llama said:
...Believe it or not I wasn't actually thinking of anything particular when I posted that. I think I may have seen that a while ago though, was that the one with the
giant bacterial colony that IIRC believed it was god
or am I getting confused?
I really liked that movie, it had a great atmosphere about it.

Phantom Llama said:
Good question. One could make a reasonable case either way. It could be argued that it represents them and their place in nature rather than is one of them, much like the god of fire or humans is an Outsider rather than an Elemental or Humanoid.
I prefer to think of Fey as Nature 'Spirits'.

Incidently I had an idea for a cool epic monster: Bale Fiend (its a cross between a Balor and a Pit Fiend) their two spirits entwined by some mad deity. Then again, maybe its too similar to an Infernal I wonder...?
 
Upper_Krust said:
Incidently I had an idea for a cool epic monster: Bale Fiend (its a cross between a Balor and a Pit Fiend) their two spirits entwined by some mad deity. Then again, maybe its too similar to an Infernal I wonder...?
I don't think that a demon/devil cross would infringe too closely on a god/fiend cross if you do it right. Of course, being Upper_Krust, you will definitely do it right.

Random Monster Idea #452: A living hurricane made of teeth.
 

Fieari

Explorer
Upper_Krust said:
Incidently I had an idea for a cool epic monster: Bale Fiend (its a cross between a Balor and a Pit Fiend) their two spirits entwined by some mad deity. Then again, maybe its too similar to an Infernal I wonder...?
That could probably be statted up with existing rules, such that it isn't really a NEW thing... well, unless you MAKE it a new thing, of course. But I'm thinking Gestalt or Tauric the Balor and Pit Fiend together, then advance as you see fit, and apply whatever divine template seems appropriate.
 

Upper_Krust

Adventurer
Hiya mate! :)

Fieari said:
So is the cover painted yet? On a scale of 1 to 10, how awesome is it?
Its 95%. Painting gold to look like gold ain't as easy as you may think, and it doesn't help that the whole thing radiates light, making the light sourcing a total pain in the bottom. The reflective shadow on the Seraphim is tricky so I am giving it due consideration.

Also the paint I am using really does look like gold, which is great until you realise that subsequent layers of paint over the top don't blend as well.

Other than that everything is finished (although there are some lighting bolts that go over the top of the Seraphim that will need to be done after the Seraphim is finished).
 

Upper_Krust

Adventurer
Hey Fieari mate! :)

Fieari said:
I statted up a Bale Fiend. Double-dipping on the divine side of things, but the CR looks right to me on a quick eyeball check...
Very cool, although not at all what I had in mind, more a case of stacking than blending. ;)
 
Hey Craig. It's Mike. I haven't gotten an email back from you yet, so I decided to register and chat it up on these boards.

The cover art for the Bestiary looks fantastic! Is the Typhon art going to be like that too?

Also, I got this as a request on the Wizards boards:



Let me know what you think!
 

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