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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Upper_Krust" data-source="post: 3598101" data-attributes="member: 326">Hey dante and Sokenzan Marauder - thanks for the feedback guys. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Well thats a relief.Absolutely no idea. The owner was a good friend of mine at school (in fact for a time he was part of our gaming group), so I cut him a bit of slack, but I have been tapering down my requests for a while - he doesn't seem to pay any heed.The only reason I haven't called him on it is because I barely have the money to buy the stuff I have requested. So its like, well at least I've saved some money for food! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Okay.Well if you have 4 PCs one of them will fail (on average) once every five attempts. Which I actually think is a pretty good return on save or die effects.If you have multiple abilities which force saving throws then if a PC has to make 3 saves per round thats 3/20 chance of failure rather than 1/20.But your argument is only really a problem if that is the monsters only source of attack - which (at epic levels) almost certainly is not the case.So what you are saying is that low DCs is a problem for a tiny minority of monsters. But I am trying to look at the bigger picture.Overlooking the fact that most epic monsters have multiple simultaneous abilities.The flipside of your argument is a situation whereby your PCs simply not be able to make their saves. Which encourages the dreaded absolutes of immunities...and of course if everyone is immune to the power it doesn't matter whther the DC is 1 million or not. So it becomes redundant nonetheless.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />My type of gamers! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />But you shouldn't have to be a power gamer just to survive.I have a few ideas on making spells relevant which will surface in the Grimoire. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />The original Surtur's DCs were so high they were virtually impossible to save against even for extreme min/maxed PCs of the appropriate level.Knowing your players are powergamers though - shouldn't you be upping the ante if they are comfortably dealing with creatures of the normal CR range...?I must admit I like a challenge, I'll have to design some new monsters to give your group a test (while not obliterating them through sheer power). <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> Thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated.I didn't mention them because the Void Dragon doesn't have one and I had no space to fit it in...trust the void not to have any space. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />Interdimensional is the Nexus cosmic, while Time Folding was the Cometary's Divine.</blockquote>

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