Immortals Handbook Epic Bestiary (now available)

[Upper_Krust]

U_K!

Hey Ltheb dude!

I got your email(s) (I got 2, are they different? I just skimmed over them).

The only difference is the discount voucher comment.

I don't mind an extended release date, though an earlier release would have been nice. Thankfully, my PCs are not anywhere near the point in which I would need ascension.

Thank heavens for small mercies then.

I also have a question on feat packages - From what I gather, they are groups of feats, under one feat package name, that take up about 6 or so feat slots. I understand they would help in speeding up character creation, but after character creation, could I still take them (or should I just take the feats?)

Its mostly for NPCs, I suspect most PCs will want to better min/max their characters.

But you could still take them.

Also, you mention the possibility of swapping out excessively large numbers of feats for divine or higher abilities. Would I simply just not take a feat for x levels or is this also a deity creation only feature?

I don't understand what you mean here?

If you have a character with 40 feats, you may not want to spend all that time picking out so many feats. So instead you could give them 10 feats and 5 divine abilities.

Also, what is your take on undead and divinity. In Deitys and Demigods, they have undead traits listed if you want to have the powers of the undead as a god, but the gods themselves are not undead. Would your system allow for undead deitys, or does one need to be alive to store divine quintessence(sp?)?

I see no logical reason why undead cannot be or become deities.

Oh, one last (again) question: You outlined your character creation system earlier, and it sounded as if a Deity can only have 2 portfolios. Is this a system rule or only for character creation ease? Many deities in books list half a dozen portfolios (though some are redundant) Just wondering. Good luck with Ascension.

Its a system rule. Any deity that needs more than two portfolios to get across its message needs a slap. Too many portfolios will just dilute what the god stands for in the eyes of the populace, and as you note, in D&Dg a lot of the portfolios are redundant.

That said, I'll have options for having more than two, but I'll certainly be penalising characters who take them.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

U_K!

I don't understand what you mean here?

If you have a character with 40 feats, you may not want to spend all that time picking out so many feats. So instead you could give them 10 feats and 5 divine abilities.

What I tried to ask was if a character wanted to use such an option, would he only be able to swap out the feat choices for divine abilities at character creation. I was wondering if/how this works in mid campaign? EX: For some odd reason, lets say Mordred the Blackguard has acumulated 18 levels after a long campaign of vorpal-greatcleaving the Knights of the Round Table. Could he swap his 6 epic feats for say, the Hand of Death salient ability (or soul-sucking-smite or whatnot)? Or would he only have the option of doing a feat to ability conversion at character creation?
I can't see how it could hurt mid-game, as such a character who isnt taking feats for several sessions will probobly lag behind the party for quite some time. So what if a character can swap out 1296 feats for Omnipotence. They won't even get close in 'most' games. (I am sure it will happen)

 

[poilbrun]

Its a system rule. Any deity that needs more than two portfolios to get across its message needs a slap. Too many portfolios will just dilute what the god stands for in the eyes of the populace, and as you note, in D&Dg a lot of the portfolios are redundant.

That said, I'll have options for having more than two, but I'll certainly be penalising characters who take them.

Doesn't that preclude very small pantheons? I'm thinking about having only 4 main deities in my campaign world, probably all greater gods, each representing one element, one concept (such as death, life, magic), one natural habitat (forest, sea,...), one race, one "civilization abstract trait" (such as rulership) and one "civilization concrete trait" (such as art, craft,...). Using such a system, would one of these gods be weaker than a greater deity in a world where there would be several gods for water, life, sea, elves, freedom and art?

Another idea that floated in my mind (and in my notes): how would you handle a situation where the mortals would worship several aspect of a god separately? In the example above, the mortals would worship the god of water under a given name and the god of freedom under another name, even though they are the same god?

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

I think the limit for 2 portfolios is a more mechanical game balance limit than a flavor limit really. It appears, as from what I read, that having a portfolio grants you a steady stream of powers as your rank increases. (By that I mean You get divine/cosmic/etc powers on your porfolio list at certain divine levels, like class features) A deity with, say 7 porfolios has roughly 7 times the power of say, Captain-burninator the Sun God (Double Fire porfolio). While said sun god may be rank 18, some minor deity (Rank ~6) with say ~7 portfolios is going to have more powers than that Greater deity. Granted, Some of these power trees probably overlap, nor would said lesser god have as powerful abilities as the Sun god in question.
The pantheon you describe most likely works perfectly fine if those are the average powers for all the gods, but they will be much more powerful than U_K's rules basis (more powers, possibly higher stats, etc). Perhaps a CR/ECL adjustment would be needed.
Thats just my opinion, I could be wrong.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey all!

Okay, I'll reply to the previous posts in a moment but I do want to posit an important question, thats been holding me back a bit.

Basically I need to decide upon six powers one for each of the First Ones that gives them control over their particular dimension.

So, for example

Time: Zurvan/Father Time gains the Transtemporal power which basically means he is beyond time. An opponent with the Slipstream ability cannot be undermined by time travel, but Zurvan still controls the past, present and future and as such would gain triple actions against the opponent. But he couldn't just go back in time and kill the opponent when they were a baby, if you understand.

Okay thats the easy one.

The others are a bit less obvious.

You still have the

Entropy, Fate/Space (I'm sort of confusing myself whether it should be Space or Fate), Matter, Spirit and Thought

Here are my ideas:

Entropy: Transmortality (aka. True Immortality). This is basically like Cosmic String except that you cannot even be killed by someone more powerful than yourself. You can still be sundered and imprisoned, but you can't be destroyed.

Fate: Evil Eye. Any opponents gain the worst possible dice roll against you in all situations. Opponents with the Inner Eye cosmic ability can ignore this, but they no longer gain the best possible dice rolls for themselves.

Matter: Transmute, Allows you to rearrange matter into any form. Beings with the Plastic Soul cosmic ability would not be automatically converted, but would suffer 50% current hit point damage per round.

Spirit: Transfinite (aka. Supremacy). You can add the power of any single opponent to your own. A character with the Legion cosmic ability can sunder their own spirit into multiple lesser forms (think Dagda).

Thought: Transpose (aka. Rectify) If you make a Will save (against an attack for example) you can simply disbelieve the action ever occurred.

But I am just not happy with most of the above. Particularly matter and thought.

I have about a half dozen other ideas but I am curious to hear other peoples thoughts on the matter - perhaps there is something obvious I am missing.

 

[Upper_Krust]

U_K!

Hiya mate!

What I tried to ask was if a character wanted to use such an option, would he only be able to swap out the feat choices for divine abilities at character creation.

No. But if you want to 'swop' existing feats for divine abilities you need to use a wish.

I was wondering if/how this works in mid campaign? EX: For some odd reason, lets say Mordred the Blackguard has acumulated 18 levels after a long campaign of vorpal-greatcleaving the Knights of the Round Table. Could he swap his 6 epic feats for say, the Hand of Death salient ability (or soul-sucking-smite or whatnot)? Or would he only have the option of doing a feat to ability conversion at character creation?

If you have already used the feat slots to gain feats you need a wish to change them.

Otherwise you need 6 free feat slots.

You also need to meet the prerequisites for the divine ability.

I can't see how it could hurt mid-game, as such a character who isnt taking feats for several sessions will probobly lag behind the party for quite some time. So what if a character can swap out 1296 feats for Omnipotence. They won't even get close in 'most' games. (I am sure it will happen)

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey poilbrun mate!

...tell Izzy I said bonsoir madame.

Doesn't that preclude very small pantheons? I'm thinking about having only 4 main deities in my campaign world, probably all greater gods, each representing one element, one concept (such as death, life, magic), one natural habitat (forest, sea,...), one race, one "civilization abstract trait" (such as rulership) and one "civilization concrete trait" (such as art, craft,...). Using such a system, would one of these gods be weaker than a greater deity in a world where there would be several gods for water, life, sea, elves, freedom and art?

They might be fractionally weaker, but the key will be that their portfolios will be diluted.

Another idea that floated in my mind (and in my notes): how would you handle a situation where the mortals would worship several aspect of a god separately? In the example above, the mortals would worship the god of water under a given name and the god of freedom under another name, even though they are the same god?

This is handled through the god having different Faiths. A Faith is an area where the god is worshipped. That can lead to a lot of interesting roleplaying possibilities.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello again mate!

I think the limit for 2 portfolios is a more mechanical game balance limit than a flavor limit really. It appears, as from what I read, that having a portfolio grants you a steady stream of powers as your rank increases. (By that I mean You get divine/cosmic/etc powers on your porfolio list at certain divine levels, like class features) A deity with, say 7 porfolios has roughly 7 times the power of say, Captain-burninator the Sun God (Double Fire porfolio). While said sun god may be rank 18, some minor deity (Rank ~6) with say ~7 portfolios is going to have more powers than that Greater deity. Granted, Some of these power trees probably overlap, nor would said lesser god have as powerful abilities as the Sun god in question.
The pantheon you describe most likely works perfectly fine if those are the average powers for all the gods, but they will be much more powerful than U_K's rules basis (more powers, possibly higher stats, etc). Perhaps a CR/ECL adjustment would be needed.
Thats just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Think of portfolios like Prestige Classes.

If you are a Greater God with the double Fire Portfolio your control over fire is greater than if you were a greater god with portfolios of Fire and War.

The more portfolios you add the more you dilute their benefits.

 

[Alzrius]

I think that the Transfinite power is going to need a lot of adjudication regarding how long you gain the power for, etc.

The Transmute power seems like it's basically a very powerful polymorph any object ability. The ability to control all physical matter seems like it should be more...well...cosmic, somehow.

Likewise, the Transpose ability may be a bit clunky, depending on how the DC is calculated. I assume it's going to largely be set by the damage dealt? Again, that doesn't seem to fully encapsulate the magnitude of power over sentience.

That said, what I think most of all is that you have sixteen days before this is going to be released to the general public, and that it's better to make a decision and stick with it, even if you have some misgivings, than to let indecision bog you down.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

U_K!
Love 'em all.
Only one that I think could be better would be Entropy's power. When I think of Entropy, I think decay/weakness. Perhaps, instead of true immortality, a true mortality power, that negates opponent's ability to survive. Barring that, swaping Fate's ability with the True Immortality might work.
Or one might give Entropy a Entropic mastery style power - Ex: Every effect is permenent.
Also I think Rectify is a bit over the top. It negates all the other "equivalent" powers. (I reads like you can make a will save vs anything to negate it) It grants a universal benifit vs everything, while the others seem to only affect one area. If it is available to PCs, It seems like a "must have" for anything with a high wisdom. (and/or Inner Eye) The True Immortality power would be another PCs-will-allways-take-this power, virtually ensuring their adventure can continue. (though If my PCs tried this, I may just sic an Elder Quintessence Elemental on em, then have the BBEG kill 'em.