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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kerrick" data-source="post: 3319061" data-attributes="member: 4722">Okay, so I played around with some things. I know I shouldn't have done this, but I changed several different variables at once, instead of changing one thing at a time. From a troubleshooting point of view (and this is really what it is - trying to "fix" the systen), you should try one thing at a time, and if that doesn't work, reset it and try something else, but I did it differently this time, for whatever reason.I'm working off a new set of wealth tables I devised, which can be found <a href="http://www.geocities.com/mistmane/files/wealth.doc" target="_blank">here</a>. I reverse-engingeered the existing system and revised the progression, turning it into a flatter, more even climb. Best of all, since it uses a standardized formula, I can figure out the startig gold for any level in under a minute.I also tried an idea someone on the Wizards boards had - once the item's bonus becomes "epic" (i.e., exceeds normal limits), instead of applying a straight x10 multiplier, you apply a "graded multiplier" (my term): x2, then x3 for the next highest, 4, etc. all the way up to x10, where it remains. I actually modified it to x1 for the first bonus (in this case, +6), then x1.5 for +7, x2 for +8, x3 for +9, etc., as it results in less of a drastic jump in prices and prevents a huge gap in availability by level. And finally, I tried two different pricing caps for buying items - the first is that no item can exceed 1/4 starting wealth; the second is 1/3. 1/4 turned out to work better (yeah, go fig, huh?), so the final figures use that.I know my eyes start to cross when someone posts a bunch of numbers and charts and formulae, so I won't subject you all to it. If anyone's interested in looking over the numbers, you can check out a copy of the <a href="http://www.geocities.com/mistmane/files/pricing.xls" target="_blank">Excel file</a> with most of my work, but don't expect any notes. Most of it should be pretty easy to understand from this post anyway.My goals:I'm not sure that I really had any goals when I started messing around with this stuff, beyond just playing with the numbers; if I did, I forgot what it was. I know I came up with the variant wealth progression to flatten out the curve and make a system that works at all levels (i.e., it follows an actual formula instead of some made-up numbers), but I'm not really sure why I started messing with magic items, beyond that it was probably related to the artificing system I'm working on. Anyway, I did come up with some goals while I was doing this:1) To come up with a consolidated pricing system for weapons and armor - that is, I think a +6 weapon bonus should be the same whether it's +6 enhancement (epic) or several lesser items adding up to a +6 market value (non-epic), and the same thing with armor.2) To find a viable alternative to the x10 epic multiplier. This is a corollary to #1, really - an alternative to the x10 multiplier enables me to create a consolidated pricing system.My conclusions:1) Applying a graded multiplier for epic bonuses works out very well, and eliminates the huge price hike from epic to non-epic. It also works very well for a consolidated pricing system. It has to continue past x10, however, in order to keep pace with increasing wealth, and to keep UK's formula valid. I have not, however, come up with a way to calculate XP costs (I haven't even tried) but if you go with the <a href="http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=186005" target="_blank">artificing rules</a> I'm working on, you won't need XP. For those of you who'd prefer to stick with the original system, I'll see what I can come up with.2) Ability score bonuses are probably just a bit too cheap. The pricing should be bonus^2 x 1500 instead of x 1000. That's just my opinion, however.3) Skill bonuses should become epic when they exceed +10, not +30. There is no item in the DMG with a skill bonus above +10 (with the possible exception of the robe of eyes, which grants +10 to Search and Spot). Again, my opinion, but the fact that all skill-enhancing item bonuses were halved between 3.0 and 3.5 (and the ring of jumping was reduced to +5) seems to bear this out.4) At 40th level, you can afford: +16 armor, +16 shield, +13 weapon, and a +16 stat-boosting item, which is around 8.45 million, and which gives you around 3.5 million extra to play around with. Yeah, it's a bit much, I agree. can't figure a way around that.5) The formulas UK uses helped me to finalize this thing. Like I already mentioned, with the variant progression AND the graded multiplier, you can apply the formula for all levels, 1-infinity:At levels 1-10, bonus^2x1000 is roughly ECL/3; bonus^2x2000 is about ECL/3.5.At levels 11-40, bonus^2x1000 is roughly ECL/2.5; bonus^2x2000 is about ECL/3.After L40, bonus^2x1000 is roughly ECL/2.25; bonus^2x2000 is about ECL/2.75.Yeah, I was surprised as hell when I tried this too. I came up with the variant wealth progression a few weeks ago, well before I thought about doing this, and I haven't changed it at all, but it wouldn't have worked without the graded multipliers, so it's just a case of a confluence of events working out well.</blockquote>

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