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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kerrick" data-source="post: 3331957" data-attributes="member: 4722">I was considering that too, but UK's right - once any part of the bonus becomes epic (either the enhancement bonus or the total market value) the whole thing is treated as epic. The ELH provides a rather convoluted ruling on this:So basically what it's saying is this: if the item has an enhancement bonus of +5 or less and/or a bunch of enhancements, none of which exceed +5 AND total +10 or less, then it uses the non-epic pricing. If the item has an enhancement bonus of +6 or more, OR has any single ability that provides a market bonus of +6 or more, OR has a total market value of +11 or more, then it trips the x10 multiplier and becomes epic. Yeah, it would also drop the levels at which these items could become available - you could afford a +20 weapon at 34th level, rather than whatever level it is now (40th+), which would toss your ECL formula out the window.I assume you mean the jump from non-epic (the +5 keen holy sword) to epic (+6 keen holy sword). Like I said, it could work - I'm not sure at this point which method to use, the merged tables (where the +5 keen holy sword has the same price as a +8 sword) or the separate ones (where the +5 keen holy sword is a non-epic market value and the +8 sword is an epic market value). The main problem is that it's much easier to get a low-enhancement item and pile on abilities (and given the 3.5 DR system, this is the route everyone's going anyway). A +3 keen flaming wounding weapon of speed (+10 total) is only 200,000 gp without the epic multiplier. IMO, a pile of lesser enhancements should equal one larger enhancement - that weapon is hugely poweful and has a lot of magic in it.If you're talking about the x10 mutliplier, well... you're talking a 10-level jump in affordability. A +5 weapon can be afforded at 15th level; a +6 weapon isn't affordable till 27th. Likewise, a +10 market value weapon is affordable at 27th level, whereas +11 isn't available till 36th. That's a huge gap, wouldn't you say? With the graded multiplier, there is no appreciable jump in levels - a +5 weapon is affordable at 15th level, a +6 at 17th, and +7 at 20th; a +10 market weapon is affordable at 28th and a +11 at 31st. That is, of course, assuming you merge the tables; if you don't (you use the epic multiplier for epic bonuses only), then +6 is 17th still (since it's x1), and +7 is 21st - still not a big jump. +10 market value is 21st, and +11 becomes 31st level. Okay, that's a huge jump, I'll admit - I didn't check that beforehand. It's pretty well convinced me the tables should be merged, though.Probably. Course, my notes aren't exactly easy to understand either. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> Here's a table for you:+6 armor (x1): 36,000 gp, 1,400 XP+7 armor (x1.5): 73,500 gp, 1,960 XP+8 armor (x2): 128,000 gp, 2,560 XP+9 armor (x3): 243,000 gp, 3,240 XP+10 armor (x4): 400,000 gp, 4,000 XP+6 weapon (x1): 72,000 gp, 2,880 XP+7 weapon (x1.5): 147,000 gp, 3,920 XP+8 weapon (x2): 256,000 gp, 5,120 XP+9 weapon (x3): 486,000, 6,480 XP+10 weapon (x4): 800,000 gp, 8,000 XP.Assuming you're not making a +20 enhancement bonus item (CL 60th), I'd like you to show me a 16th level PC who has 2.8 million to blow. Under my system, you don't get that much until 28th level; in the core system, it's 27th. A PC can't even afford such an item by the 1/4 rule until 45th level (my system; I don't know about the core, but it's likely 50th). I don't see your point here - you're over-exaggerating.I dunno.. the squaring system seems to work well enough. As long as you have a table people can refer to, so they don't have to do all the math themselves, and the item prices scale with level (which they do if you fix the wealth progression), it all works out pretty well.</blockquote>

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