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Message: <blockquote data-quote="paradox42" data-source="post: 3763594" data-attributes="member: 29746">It certainly helps to structure the debate; by referring to the box options we can see where each individual comes from and better perceive where their arguments are going. It's very abstract of course, so won't help specific examples, but by knowing where each individual is trying to go the merit of individual examples can be discussed more specifically and rationally.I'll weigh in as the first to pick #2- I don't honestly believe that the concept of "limits" even applies to an infinite universe. For the purposes of the IH, and related fiction, we're typically dealing with various "levels" or types of infinity, whether it be infinite planes, or an infinite number of finite universes existing within the same ultimate dimensional framework, or whatever.The idea of a cognitive limit requires that there be a theoretical limit, a state wherein no further processing can yield new results. In a closed, finite universe, this limit certainly exists. If time is unbounded then the limit is the point at which no matter or energy is left to power processing, at which point the only way to have any information processing occur at all is a steady-state machine which always loops back around to its starting point. If time is bounded, by contrast, then the limit is essentially the maximum amount of processing that can occur during the maximum timespan the universe exists, and nothing beyond this is possible. However, when infinity comes into play, these limits both disappear- there will always be a way to acquire new matter or energy to process information, and/or you can never run out of time with which to process it. In this case, we come up against <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems" target="_blank">Godel's incompleteness theorems</a> which prove that there exist some problems that theoretical frameworks can never solve with their base axioms- there will thus always be new "intellectual space," so to speak, to explore.A physical limit is a concept that largely depends on what one accepts as the "real, true" base of the universe. My arguments along this line are less formulated at the moment, so I'll just leave expansion of this for another post. This one's long and dense enough already.</blockquote>

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