Implements: Arcane multiclassed arcane

[tuxgeo]

Wizards and Warlocks who multiclass to Bard gain the ability to use Songblades as arcane implements, because the Bardic Dilettante feat says, "In addition, you can wield bardic implements." Does this mean that Wizard or Warlock PCs can use Songblades to channel their Wizard or Warlock powers, or only to channel their Bard powers?
On the flip side, a Bard trying to multiclass to Warlock gains the ability to use Rods as arcane implements; but the wording seems to say that such a PC could only use them to channel the multiclassed Warlock powers, not Bard powers: ". . . you can use a rod, a wand, or a pact blade as an implement when using a warlock power or . . . paragon path power."
Am I missing essential errata here? Is the Warlock multiclassing more restrictive; or can an arcane character who multiclasses to another arcane class actually use the new implements for powers of either class? (I'm trying to avoid juggling of implements, so it would be nice if one type of implement would work for all powers one doubly-arcane PC has.)
Apologies if this issue has already been discussed; I didn't see it in the titles of the top 8 pages of this forum.

 

[NMcCoy]

With the introduction of the "Arcane Implement Proficiency" feat (which makes any arcane implement usable by any arcane class), it seems reasonable to me that multiclassing into an implement-wielding class lets you use the implements of that class for implement powers in general, but this is RAI rather than RAW.

 

[Mirtek]

Wizards and Warlocks who multiclass to Bard gain the ability to use Songblades as arcane implements, because the Bardic Dilettante feat says, "In addition, you can wield bardic implements." Does this mean that Wizard or Warlock PCs can use Songblades to channel their Wizard or Warlock powers, or only to channel their Bard powers?
On the flip side, a Bard trying to multiclass to Warlock gains the ability to use Rods as arcane implements; but the wording seems to say that such a PC could only use them to channel the multiclassed Warlock powers, not Bard powers: ". . . you can use a rod, a wand, or a pact blade as an implement when using a warlock power or . . . paragon path power."
Am I missing essential errata here? Is the Warlock multiclassing more restrictive; or can an arcane character who multiclasses to another arcane class actually use the new implements for powers of either class? (I'm trying to avoid juggling of implements, so it would be nice if one type of implement would work for all powers one doubly-arcane PC has.)
Apologies if this issue has already been discussed; I didn't see it in the titles of the top 8 pages of this forum.

It's a misstake of the bard MC feat. If you MC and gain the ability to use implements, this ability is limited to the powers of the class you MC into and does not apply to your other powers of the same power source.

They made the same misstake with the swordmage MC feat, which also didn't specify that it's only for the swordmage powers but they released an FAQ answer to clarify this.

With the introduction of the "Arcane Implement Proficiency" feat (which makes any arcane implement usable by any arcane class), it seems reasonable to me that multiclassing into an implement-wielding class lets you use the implements of that class for implement powers in general, but this is RAI rather than RAW.

The implement proficiency feat should show that it's cleary not RAI for MC feats to also allow it, otherwise these feats would be way too good (combining three feats into one)

 

[CapnZapp]

The implement proficiency feat should show that it's cleary not RAI for MC feats to also allow it, otherwise these feats would be way too good (combining three feats into one)

Which three feats?

Does this feat also grant you a proficiency bonus for your implement(s)?!?

 

[Mirtek]

Which three feats?

Skill Focus + Multiclassing are done by the single MC feat anyway and adding Implement Proficiency would make it three feats for the price of one feat.

Does this feat also grant you a proficiency bonus for your implement(s)?!?

No, it only allows you to use other implements for your implement powers (e.g. a wizard using rods for his wizard powers)

 

[DevoutlyApathetic]

Skill Focus + Multiclassing are done by the single MC feat anyway and adding Implement Proficiency would make it three feats for the price of one feat.

I think you mean skill training there. Moreover I think it's overstating, just how many times does a multiclass need to have Arcana or Religion trained? Making it effectively Implement Proficiency would make otherwise less ideal multiclass feats more ideal.

 

[CapnZapp]

No, it only allows you to use other implements for your implement powers (e.g. a wizard using rods for his wizard powers)

I agree it would have been broken to allow a proficiency bonus, but it does make one ask why they used the word "proficiency" in this case, when it has nothing to do with the established term and mechanic called proficiency...? Oh well.

 

[tuxgeo]

It's a mistake of the bard MC feat. If you MC and gain the ability to use implements, this ability is limited to the powers of the class you MC into and does not apply to your other powers of the same power source.

They made the same mistake with the swordmage MC feat, which also didn't specify that it's only for the swordmage powers but they released an FAQ answer to clarify this.

The implement proficiency feat should show that it's cleary not RAI for MC feats to also allow it, otherwise these feats would be way too good (combining three feats into one)

Thanks to everyone for the clarification, and especially to NMcCoy and Mirtek for the answers (and to Mirtek for the link). I should have known that the MC feats were too good when I kept looking for excuses to take them (instead of reasons to take them).

 

[mach1.9pants]

Sorry, where is the implement proficiency feat? The only ones I can find on the compendium are the extra wizard one (paragon) and one for warlocks using a polearm... on DDi.
I guess it is in AP?

 

[ppaladin123]

Sorry, where is the implement proficiency feat? The only ones I can find on the compendium are the extra wizard one (paragon) and one for warlocks using a polearm... on DDi.
I guess it is in AP?

Yup, arcane power. One obvious one is to take heavy blades (from swordmage). It's nice for a valorous bard since they aren't dependent on songblades then. Sorcerers might take it too but sorcerous blade channeling only works with daggers so you'd be limited to close attacks. Melee warlocks might be interested as well.