Implications of a race of hermaphrodites?
- Thread starter Tsyr
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The difference between "neuter" and "hermaphrodite" aren't all that clear cut. The Star Trek race mentioned above did not procreate using what we'd call copulation. But at the moment, what we are considering is not the method of procreation, but what a lack of sexual dimorphism does to a society.
About nudity, I think you're incorrect. Nudity taboos are not based upon "what everyone has seen". They are based upon gender roles, and what the society feels is sexually provocative. The issue isn't whether everyone has seen booty, but whether shaking it in public is acceptable. At first glance, we don't have gender roles to worry about, but the other issue stands. This society could be anywhere from nudist to Victorian with equal facility.
Being hermaphroditic does not necessarily mean that there isn't division of the society into roles. Humans don't just divide their world by gender. They do so by skin color, percieved mental ability, general philosophy, wealth, geographic region of origin. If you want to, you can take your pick.
What might be the most strong thing to flavor this race is it's relations with others. Among themselves, they have no gender issues. But other humanoid races will bring their issues with them when they deal with the hermaphrodites. There may be a very, very major "Us/Them" line drawn between these folks, and those with dimorphism. Whether that manifests as fascination, or xenophobia, or feeling of superiority, or what have you, is up to you.
Btw, having a feeling that you are an evolutionary change from another race presupposes the existance of a theory of evolution! That's not small potatoes if everyone else thinks the races were created by the gods, or suchlike.
About nudity, I think you're incorrect. Nudity taboos are not based upon "what everyone has seen". They are based upon gender roles, and what the society feels is sexually provocative. The issue isn't whether everyone has seen booty, but whether shaking it in public is acceptable. At first glance, we don't have gender roles to worry about, but the other issue stands. This society could be anywhere from nudist to Victorian with equal facility.
Being hermaphroditic does not necessarily mean that there isn't division of the society into roles. Humans don't just divide their world by gender. They do so by skin color, percieved mental ability, general philosophy, wealth, geographic region of origin. If you want to, you can take your pick.
What might be the most strong thing to flavor this race is it's relations with others. Among themselves, they have no gender issues. But other humanoid races will bring their issues with them when they deal with the hermaphrodites. There may be a very, very major "Us/Them" line drawn between these folks, and those with dimorphism. Whether that manifests as fascination, or xenophobia, or feeling of superiority, or what have you, is up to you.
Btw, having a feeling that you are an evolutionary change from another race presupposes the existance of a theory of evolution! That's not small potatoes if everyone else thinks the races were created by the gods, or suchlike.
Lela
First Post
Tsyr said:
It involved an egg that both parents fertilized. It was described as pleasurable, I believe. Did the process also involve more than two individuals?
But it did fall in love with Riker, having a tendency towards female. When the rest of the race fount out about it, they forced her to do some kind of hormone treatment or genetic modifications (can't recall). It came out with a very different personality and no tendency towards either sex. Nor did she seem to have any feelings for Riker anymore.
In this case, high magic could take the place of hormone treatments and the end result would also force the individual one more step towards a given alignment (likely some form of Neutral).
Also, monogamy might not be the norm. They could have little need for longterm relationships or prefer groups of three or four. In this case they may actually need three (or even four) to procreate. If they did prefer (or have an innate need for) longterm relationships, this would serve as a means of keeping the population low. Hard enough finding one person to spend your life with, let alone three. And they all have to feel the same way about the other three. Ooi.
If you went with that, I would up the race's age catigories to help keep it going.
There's also the question of gods. If they have a panthion aken to themselves, how would the curse be explained? Did they piss off a devine rank 20+ deity--who may or may not still be around? Or if they lack a panthion, either they would not worship at all, or worship the gendered deities of other races. If so, they could think of all the gods as truely genderless but other races apply a gender to help them understand the devine. You'd have to decide how they'd feel about this practice of gender typing in other races as well.
Hope that helps.
Regardless, when you get it all figured out, please post the final form here. I'm starting to get into it and I think I'll be including them in my world at some point.
Tsyr
Explorer
Lela said:
The story behind the curse, as I understand it, is that only a few people were actualy cursed... a couple hundred. They were part of a group of wood-elves who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time... a smallish island off the coast of the mainland that a couple of gods had taken an interest in during a divine war for some reason or another. A lot of divine magic was thrown about on the island, and it had a lot of unintended effects... This off-shoot race being one of them. The island was rendered far to hostile to live on by the war, though (They aren't the strangest mutation by far), and they fled to the mainland. They discovered there that the traid breeds true with other elves.
I think elves are probably going to shun them a bit, for that very reason... They might see it as a disease (Which, I guess, in a way, it almost is), and avoid it as such... The thought of "cursing" their future offspring probably isn't a pleasant one to them. They might pity them, I'm not sure yet.
In Star Wars, the Hutts change gender roles based on what they want to explore. They may go through their lives as a male or female and then change their gender role when they wish to have a child. You could say that these elves do something similar. So essentially you can have those who are seeking mates and those who aren't. The seeking mates are either male or female and the ones who aren’t are androgynous. BTW, the Hutts are based on earthworms (which are hermaphrodites) to my understanding. So look at earthworms and their “society” and see what basic differences in sex roles there are.
Lela said:
Nope, just two individuals.
Monogamy might not be the norm, but it hasn't been the human norm for all times and places either, so nothing new there.
Being hermaphroditic in no way lessens the need for long term relationships. Long-term relationships in humans have their origin in the fact that it has generally taken more than one parent to sucessfully raise a child, and that with a human's (relatively) low birth rate, it is to the advantage of your genetic line for you to stick around and help raise kids that bear your genes.
For critters with an even lower birth rate, parental influence will be correspondingly greater. The fewer kids you can have, the greater your need to make sure those kids grow up okay. So, these people will be more likely to have long-term relationships, rather than less.
Lela
First Post
Umbran said:
True, but the option is there. For example, if he's going for similarity to fey, then long-term relationships may not work for him.
Still, if the idea that it did take four to procreate were used, then the need for long-term relationships would be all the higher. Which, in this case, might be a little counter productive. Hard to find four who get along that well.
Tonguez
A suffusion of yellow
IMC Gnomes are Hermaphrodites!
I based thison the Smurfs - ya know 101 Smurfs and only one female - who btw was created by Gargamel.
So IMC Juvenile Gnomes are gender neutral and do not have well developed genetalia (it amounts to a 'genetal bump'). Gnomes are neotenic and most gnomes remain at this stage indefinately - these are the main stays of most clans.
However environmental factors may cause biological maturation in a few gnomes and the development of gender specific traits.
IMC Gnome clans are eusocial (hive-like) and centered round a single "Clan-Mother'. Thus the major Sexual Maturation is that of the one Female in each clan (usually caused by the abscense of a female in the clan) - ie smurfette.
When females appear during the lifetime of an existing queen they are greatly valued due to their rarity.
Development of Male characteristics will also occur when the female requires a mate and 1d4 juviniles will develop male traits and be elevated to the status of Mate (Papa Smurf was mate to the former Clan-Mother)
So as to your question if like me you have a single breeding female - your society becomes 'eusocial', and division of labour is along age rather than gender lines (eg Juveniles-Matured). The language is Gender neutral with no male/female he/she dichotomy. After this them being hermaphrodites has very little effect and none outside the clan setting. What is important IMC is that gnomes are EUSOCIAL burrowers and this is the defining point in their interaction with others...
I based thison the Smurfs - ya know 101 Smurfs and only one female - who btw was created by Gargamel.
So IMC Juvenile Gnomes are gender neutral and do not have well developed genetalia (it amounts to a 'genetal bump'). Gnomes are neotenic and most gnomes remain at this stage indefinately - these are the main stays of most clans.
However environmental factors may cause biological maturation in a few gnomes and the development of gender specific traits.
IMC Gnome clans are eusocial (hive-like) and centered round a single "Clan-Mother'. Thus the major Sexual Maturation is that of the one Female in each clan (usually caused by the abscense of a female in the clan) - ie smurfette.
When females appear during the lifetime of an existing queen they are greatly valued due to their rarity.
Development of Male characteristics will also occur when the female requires a mate and 1d4 juviniles will develop male traits and be elevated to the status of Mate (Papa Smurf was mate to the former Clan-Mother)
So as to your question if like me you have a single breeding female - your society becomes 'eusocial', and division of labour is along age rather than gender lines (eg Juveniles-Matured). The language is Gender neutral with no male/female he/she dichotomy. After this them being hermaphrodites has very little effect and none outside the clan setting. What is important IMC is that gnomes are EUSOCIAL burrowers and this is the defining point in their interaction with others...
One of the major races in my “planetary romance” campaign is a race of hermaphrodites. Their genetics (a term not actually used in play) were altered by their parent race, as follows:
"Known in Xosnecal as xasirusca, hermaphroditic xos were rare and unique individuals until the rise of Old Tyrx, the greatest of the xos dynasties to rule the Hundred Cities. The sata-cat (ruling class) of Tyrx created the xasirusca as a caste of pleasure slaves, fleshcrafting the mulus-maa (lower classes) as they saw fit. The xeova (perpetual child-slaves) and xulithela (sex-shifters) were similarly created by these depraved carnal adepts. When civil war finally broke out in Old Tyrx, the xasirusca as a group sided with the sars of Nyomogous, wherein their discipline and mastery of monastic psionics helped turn the tide against the western mindlords. The xasirusca took the Immortal Cities of Siondous as their own and established their own states, which, despite the general decline of xos culture, have managed to retain their hard-won freedom.
"The xasirusca are true hermaphrodites, possessing equally both sets of gender characteristics. Unlike the xeova or xulithela, both of whom as races are incapable of breeding, the xasirusca are capable of successful reproduction, either among themselves, whereupon the offspring is always a hermaphrodite, or with their pure xos forebears, where upon the chances of the offspring being of either gender is about equal to the chances of it being both at the same time. Though they are looked down upon and pitied for their limited perspective, a small population of “mono-genders” born of such unions live among the hermaphro dites and share some of their cultural characteristics.
"Personality: Surprisingly, for all that they were designed by the Tyrxans to be a race of sex slaves, the xasirusca are a prim, principled, and, somewhat shockingly, parochial people. The decadence and intemperance of their ances tors and modern xos cousins have given the hermaphro dites a strong sense of conservatism Most possess an almost ascetic sensibility, and the monastic way of life is common among them. In fact, many of the ancient psionic/monastic disciplines once practiced by the ancient xos but since abandoned still survive in xasirusca society.
"Lest rumors to the contrary be dashed, the xasirusca’s austere conformity in politics and general attitude ends there. In matters of sensuality, particularly in regard to sexual adventurism, the hermaphrodites are every bit as libidinous as the xos. The difference is that while the xos - particularly male xos - are exploitive, the xasirusca seek a higher level of intimacy. Though there are exceptions, the xasirusca have a need for very close relationships, the nature of which sex plays only a small, though integral, part. Partially this is due to the nature of xasirusca society, which stresses public spiritedness. The xasirusca believe in the greatest good for the greatest number of people; they respect the individual, but the community always comes first. Pleasures and comforts which cannot be shared evenly are not popular among the hermaphrodites."
They are isolationist, distrustful of outsiders (“mono-genders”), and fairly lawful in alignment.
"Known in Xosnecal as xasirusca, hermaphroditic xos were rare and unique individuals until the rise of Old Tyrx, the greatest of the xos dynasties to rule the Hundred Cities. The sata-cat (ruling class) of Tyrx created the xasirusca as a caste of pleasure slaves, fleshcrafting the mulus-maa (lower classes) as they saw fit. The xeova (perpetual child-slaves) and xulithela (sex-shifters) were similarly created by these depraved carnal adepts. When civil war finally broke out in Old Tyrx, the xasirusca as a group sided with the sars of Nyomogous, wherein their discipline and mastery of monastic psionics helped turn the tide against the western mindlords. The xasirusca took the Immortal Cities of Siondous as their own and established their own states, which, despite the general decline of xos culture, have managed to retain their hard-won freedom.
"The xasirusca are true hermaphrodites, possessing equally both sets of gender characteristics. Unlike the xeova or xulithela, both of whom as races are incapable of breeding, the xasirusca are capable of successful reproduction, either among themselves, whereupon the offspring is always a hermaphrodite, or with their pure xos forebears, where upon the chances of the offspring being of either gender is about equal to the chances of it being both at the same time. Though they are looked down upon and pitied for their limited perspective, a small population of “mono-genders” born of such unions live among the hermaphro dites and share some of their cultural characteristics.
"Personality: Surprisingly, for all that they were designed by the Tyrxans to be a race of sex slaves, the xasirusca are a prim, principled, and, somewhat shockingly, parochial people. The decadence and intemperance of their ances tors and modern xos cousins have given the hermaphro dites a strong sense of conservatism Most possess an almost ascetic sensibility, and the monastic way of life is common among them. In fact, many of the ancient psionic/monastic disciplines once practiced by the ancient xos but since abandoned still survive in xasirusca society.
"Lest rumors to the contrary be dashed, the xasirusca’s austere conformity in politics and general attitude ends there. In matters of sensuality, particularly in regard to sexual adventurism, the hermaphrodites are every bit as libidinous as the xos. The difference is that while the xos - particularly male xos - are exploitive, the xasirusca seek a higher level of intimacy. Though there are exceptions, the xasirusca have a need for very close relationships, the nature of which sex plays only a small, though integral, part. Partially this is due to the nature of xasirusca society, which stresses public spiritedness. The xasirusca believe in the greatest good for the greatest number of people; they respect the individual, but the community always comes first. Pleasures and comforts which cannot be shared evenly are not popular among the hermaphrodites."
They are isolationist, distrustful of outsiders (“mono-genders”), and fairly lawful in alignment.
s/LaSH
First Post
Hm. Let's think.
The principal line of division in a hermaphroditic community is eradicated. Thus, one could expect their society to have become 'equal' in that regard, and then by association in other regards too; I'd think their society would be very fond of justice and democracy, as 'everyone's pretty much the same' and kings are obviously 'different'.
However, they might develop 'tall poppy' syndrome; anyone who stands out is an aberration and should be discouraged or exiled.
Their relations with other races would be prejudiced by the fact that they're largely female in appearance. The assumption, therefore, is that they're weaker than male-dominated societies. This is patently untrue, but the occasional hostile takeover attempt would provoke them into developing a powerful military. Everyone would recieve basic training, and they'd be very suspicious of outsiders - as most outsiders would be coming to look for fresh wives or something weird like that, and the hermaphrodites wouldn't want to be taken off.
So we've got an egalitarian society that's militaristic, fairly bland, and xenophobic.
Sound right?
The principal line of division in a hermaphroditic community is eradicated. Thus, one could expect their society to have become 'equal' in that regard, and then by association in other regards too; I'd think their society would be very fond of justice and democracy, as 'everyone's pretty much the same' and kings are obviously 'different'.
However, they might develop 'tall poppy' syndrome; anyone who stands out is an aberration and should be discouraged or exiled.
Their relations with other races would be prejudiced by the fact that they're largely female in appearance. The assumption, therefore, is that they're weaker than male-dominated societies. This is patently untrue, but the occasional hostile takeover attempt would provoke them into developing a powerful military. Everyone would recieve basic training, and they'd be very suspicious of outsiders - as most outsiders would be coming to look for fresh wives or something weird like that, and the hermaphrodites wouldn't want to be taken off.
So we've got an egalitarian society that's militaristic, fairly bland, and xenophobic.
Sound right?
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