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Implied changes in Tolkien's Timeline in FOTR, in the film: what do you think?
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<blockquote data-quote="Edena_of_Neith" data-source="post: 281390" data-attributes="member: 2020"><p>Please remember that I am not attacking Peter Jackson.</p><p> Nor am I attacking the film LOTR: FOTR.</p><p></p><p> I think the film is incredibly good, and I think Peter Jackson has the gift of genius.</p><p></p><p> However ...</p><p></p><p> - - -</p><p></p><p> I also believe that in addition to the inevitable compression that was necessary to fit Tolkien's first book of the LOTR Trilogy to film, Peter Jackson deliberately changed the story in additional ways.</p><p></p><p> Now, for me, that is not a problem.</p><p> I like Tolkien, and Tolkien Variants (ala Arwen) are great, if they work (I thought Arwen did work, by the way.)</p><p></p><p> However, there are other people out there called the Tolkien Purists.</p><p> These folk might take exception to someone attempting to alter Tolkien's story.</p><p></p><p> - - -</p><p></p><p> Some people would argue that Peter Jackson improved on Tolkien.</p><p></p><p> Let me play Devil's Advocate for a minute, and show you how I think it could be argued that Peter Jackson did just that.</p><p></p><p> If Gandalf had any suspicion that Bilbo's Ring was the One Ring - and Bilbo's words after the Birthday Party made Gandalf very suspicious - then it would be a good assumption that Gandalf did something (what, we don't know, but something) quickly.</p><p> For the One Ring was the most strategically crucial of all things in Middle Earth. If Sauron got it back, finis. If the Ring was destroyed, finis Sauron.</p><p> And Gandalf was sent by the Valar to contest with Sauron, and ultimately to destroy him. It was Gandalf's job to act quickly concerning the One Ring - it was a responsibility he could not shirk.</p><p></p><p> So, it would make sense for Gandalf to race down as swift as a horse would go to Minas Tirith, and search through Isildur's records.</p><p></p><p> If you go by what he read in those records (in the film, at least) it would make sense for him to race right back to Frodo.</p><p></p><p> When the Ring was revealed, and Gandalf knew this to be the One Ring, and furthermore he knew that Sauron knew about the Shire - and that the Ring was IN the Shire - it made sense for Gandalf to rush Frodo (and Sam) out of Bag End within the hour, to get them out of the Shire as quickly as possible.</p><p></p><p> It would not make sense, if Gandalf suspected this to be the One Ring, for him to take 16 years to find out the truth when he could examine the Ring and it's bearer, Frodo.</p><p> Nor, once he confirmed the truth, placing the Ring in the fire at Bag End - and once he knew Sauron knew of the Shire, and that the Ring was in the Shire - would it make sense for Frodo to remain in Bag End for even 1 day, much less 5 months.</p><p></p><p> But now, that is just a theoretical opinion I am casting, for the sake of being Devil's Advocate.</p><p></p><p> I could argue that the implied speedup of the timeline, in the film, is illogical.</p><p></p><p> It took Gandalf and Aragorn a very long time to track down Gollum, in the books.</p><p> And it was only then, after Gollum was interrogated, did Gandalf learn that Sauron indeed knew of the Shire, and that the Ring lay therein.</p><p></p><p> If Gandalf had raced to Minas Tirith and back, he could hardly have heard anything from Gollum, or from Aragorn if Aragorn had captured Gollum and extracted this crucial information from him.</p><p></p><p> Once Gandalf realized this was the One Ring, in the film after it was withdrawn from the Fire, was it logical to suddenly send Frodo out the door?</p><p> The hobbits certainly would have taken notice of Frodo's absence, and word would have spread all over the Shire rather quickly.</p><p> The news would have reached Bree before Frodo did.</p><p></p><p> The Nazgul may be undead, but they are bright undead.</p><p> Their spies would have discovered who Frodo was, would have reported back that he was missing, and the Nazgul would have set ambushes at all logical destinations.</p><p> Bree was a logical place for Frodo to flee to.</p><p> The Nazgul would have been waiting for Frodo, in Bree, and they would have sprung their ambush on him when he arrived, with the help of as many Breelanders as necessary (since the Nazgul could frighten and cow people into doing their bidding.)</p><p> The Sign of the Prancing Pony would have been a death-trap for Frodo and the others.</p><p></p><p> - - -</p><p></p><p> So, there it is ... I have made arguments for both sides.</p><p> I have argued on the merits of the speeded up timeline that is implied in the film.</p><p> I have argued against the speeded up timeline that is implied in the film.</p><p></p><p> I will not presume to say Peter Jackson improved on Tolkien.</p><p> Nor will I speak against Peter Jackson and his impressive film.</p><p> I will say Peter Jackson changed Tolkien's story beyond mere compression - the implied compression of the timeline was a deliberately set up affair, in my opinion.</p><p></p><p> I have tried to give my opinions.</p><p></p><p> What do you think?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Edena_of_Neith, post: 281390, member: 2020"] Please remember that I am not attacking Peter Jackson. Nor am I attacking the film LOTR: FOTR. I think the film is incredibly good, and I think Peter Jackson has the gift of genius. However ... - - - I also believe that in addition to the inevitable compression that was necessary to fit Tolkien's first book of the LOTR Trilogy to film, Peter Jackson deliberately changed the story in additional ways. Now, for me, that is not a problem. I like Tolkien, and Tolkien Variants (ala Arwen) are great, if they work (I thought Arwen did work, by the way.) However, there are other people out there called the Tolkien Purists. These folk might take exception to someone attempting to alter Tolkien's story. - - - Some people would argue that Peter Jackson improved on Tolkien. Let me play Devil's Advocate for a minute, and show you how I think it could be argued that Peter Jackson did just that. If Gandalf had any suspicion that Bilbo's Ring was the One Ring - and Bilbo's words after the Birthday Party made Gandalf very suspicious - then it would be a good assumption that Gandalf did something (what, we don't know, but something) quickly. For the One Ring was the most strategically crucial of all things in Middle Earth. If Sauron got it back, finis. If the Ring was destroyed, finis Sauron. And Gandalf was sent by the Valar to contest with Sauron, and ultimately to destroy him. It was Gandalf's job to act quickly concerning the One Ring - it was a responsibility he could not shirk. So, it would make sense for Gandalf to race down as swift as a horse would go to Minas Tirith, and search through Isildur's records. If you go by what he read in those records (in the film, at least) it would make sense for him to race right back to Frodo. When the Ring was revealed, and Gandalf knew this to be the One Ring, and furthermore he knew that Sauron knew about the Shire - and that the Ring was IN the Shire - it made sense for Gandalf to rush Frodo (and Sam) out of Bag End within the hour, to get them out of the Shire as quickly as possible. It would not make sense, if Gandalf suspected this to be the One Ring, for him to take 16 years to find out the truth when he could examine the Ring and it's bearer, Frodo. Nor, once he confirmed the truth, placing the Ring in the fire at Bag End - and once he knew Sauron knew of the Shire, and that the Ring was in the Shire - would it make sense for Frodo to remain in Bag End for even 1 day, much less 5 months. But now, that is just a theoretical opinion I am casting, for the sake of being Devil's Advocate. I could argue that the implied speedup of the timeline, in the film, is illogical. It took Gandalf and Aragorn a very long time to track down Gollum, in the books. And it was only then, after Gollum was interrogated, did Gandalf learn that Sauron indeed knew of the Shire, and that the Ring lay therein. If Gandalf had raced to Minas Tirith and back, he could hardly have heard anything from Gollum, or from Aragorn if Aragorn had captured Gollum and extracted this crucial information from him. Once Gandalf realized this was the One Ring, in the film after it was withdrawn from the Fire, was it logical to suddenly send Frodo out the door? The hobbits certainly would have taken notice of Frodo's absence, and word would have spread all over the Shire rather quickly. The news would have reached Bree before Frodo did. The Nazgul may be undead, but they are bright undead. Their spies would have discovered who Frodo was, would have reported back that he was missing, and the Nazgul would have set ambushes at all logical destinations. Bree was a logical place for Frodo to flee to. The Nazgul would have been waiting for Frodo, in Bree, and they would have sprung their ambush on him when he arrived, with the help of as many Breelanders as necessary (since the Nazgul could frighten and cow people into doing their bidding.) The Sign of the Prancing Pony would have been a death-trap for Frodo and the others. - - - So, there it is ... I have made arguments for both sides. I have argued on the merits of the speeded up timeline that is implied in the film. I have argued against the speeded up timeline that is implied in the film. I will not presume to say Peter Jackson improved on Tolkien. Nor will I speak against Peter Jackson and his impressive film. I will say Peter Jackson changed Tolkien's story beyond mere compression - the implied compression of the timeline was a deliberately set up affair, in my opinion. I have tried to give my opinions. What do you think? [/QUOTE]
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