Important - Please Do Not Send Me Money Via Paypal

[Silver Moon]

I'm currently writing a book on publishing PDFs online. A large part of it deals with various options for e-commerce for the startup publisher....

Some advice Morrus, you should cite the above n all future correspondence to both PayPal and E-Bay. The more pressure that is collectively put on them the more likely this will be favorably resolved.

Also, rather than just saying to them "I don't ship merchandise", try to explain your 'business' as being Internet Commerce, and use phrases such as "internet connectivty fee" and "annual membership fee" - then if they need further documentation just bury them with the member profiles of all Community Supporters.

 

[Kyramus]

and the other members that are TRYING to be supporters.

I sent my transaction end of theyear 02, and it has been taken from my credit card account but if Morrus is not getting it, it's fraud/theft.
-----
From my credit card statement.

01 JAN PAYPAL*EN WORLD 402 935 7733 CA 25.00

---
From Pay Pal
This email confirms that you have paid
russmorrissey@hotmail.com $25.00
using PayPal.
This credit card transaction will appear on your bill
as "PAYPAL*EN WORLD".

------------------------------
Payment Details:
------------------------------

Amount: $25.00
Currency: U.S. Dollars
Transaction ID: 73249405PP449270H
Quantity: 1
Item/Product Name: EN World Community Supporter Member
Account - 1 Year
Item/Product Number: 002
Buyer: ***********
Message:
Kyramus
--------------------------------------
Perhaps the tracking number they are asking is the transaction ID above. Now how would Morrus know all the tracking ID's unless people send it to him Or PAY PAL never sent him the confirm that he received that amount in the first place!!!

Morrus: Let me know what you want to do with this. I can call my credit card company and refute this charge on my account.

 

[alsih2o]

http://news.com.com/2100-1017-842240.html

 

[Sniktch]

Re: Silver Moon

I think that Silver Moon might have the right idea here. If we could get all of ENWorld's members to write letters of protest then maybe we can make them see the light. I am currently composing a letter of my own, which I will post here when I am finished.

Some advice, though, please: I work for First Data, the world's largest credit card processor. I have already run a search on my mainframe and I can see that we handle PayPal's credit card transactions - I can look up their account history, activity, etc on my systems very quickly. That means I also know the person(s) who handles their account(s) and that if we were aware of fraudulent/unethical activity on their part we can freeze THEIR accounts and revoke their credit card privelages. Do you think that I should mention this in my e-mail to them?

Either way, if I don't hear that this matter is being taken care of in a satisfactory matter I will contact their account executive and recommend a full investigation of their activity and practices.

 

[Kyramus]

I just got off the phone with paypal. They want me to post a buyer's complaint form to try and retrieve the funds that was successfully processed.

according to the person i talked to
it's either the owner of the suspended account gets it fixed, or I file a buyers complaint form to try and retreive the money back.

I can only think that this is BS.

 

[HellHound]

Okay...

So someone did a charge-back on you Russ.

That means you are SCREWED.

Now, ANYONE who is complaining about this, if you actually file a full complaint about this, then you will actually be making this HARDER on Russ than easier. This is where it falls appart. They won't reopen his account until he has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he has provided ALL services that he has received paypal money for. THEN they might reopen the account. In the meantime, if anyone else files a complaint, then that will ALSO be considered a charge-back and proof that Russ isn't following through on his end of the deal, and further grounds to freeze the account again.

BAH. I hate paypal.

So, Russ, get the list of transactions that they sent you. Almost all of them should be ENworld membership stuff, right? If so, then just send them the ENWorld community supporter list. That will be proof of delivery of goods.

 

[Sniktch]

OK, I have no intention of ever filing a formal complaint. Even if I send another $25 to Morrus I'd rather he keep both payments than go mucking up the situation even further. I did, however, submit the following e-mail to their customer support address:

On Dec 20th 2002 I authorized a payment of $25.00 to a Mr. Russell Morrissey. I have just been informed that despite the fact the money has been taken from my credit card it has yet to be delivered to Mr. Morrissey, and I am shocked and outraged by your behavior in this matter. I had only recently begun using PayPal and had considered confirming my account, but rest assured that I will not do so nor use your service again until I hear that this matter has been resolved satisfactorily. I ask that you either deliver the funds I sent to Mr. Morrissey or refund them to my credit card, as I intended to send money to him and not to PayPal. I work in the credit card industry and I am intimately familiar with the rules of conducting internet commerce transactions, and I will not hesitate to take further action if that is what is needed to resolve this issue. Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.

Sincerely,
John Maddox

I don't know what good it will do, but I hope it helps. My next step will be to follow official channels at my place of employment to see if we can freeze PayPal's account and revoke their processing privelages. I know its something we CAN do, I'll just need the help of my co-workers.

 

[Kyramus]

I am not going to do the buyer's complaint form. I'm just waiting to see if Morrus can clear up the whole thing with pay pal.

I just posted what they told me so that people are aware.

 

[tarchon]

that I wish for him to have. I am very disturbed by this, and do not understand what gives you the right to do this, as it appears to me to be a clear case of fraud and theft. "

Umm... the idea is good but I think that the way you said it may complicate things. The way you wrote it, if someone didn't understand the situation clearly (which random PayPal representative #429 doesn't) it might sound as if the "clear case of fraud and theft" is the one between you and Morrus. People have to remember here that the underlying problem is that PayPal has assumed* that Morrus is selling stuff, not just collecting donations for site upkeep. In any communication with them you absolutely must make it crystal clear that there are no goods being shipped in this case and that you are completely satisfied with what you got from the transaction. The magic word that releases the account is "satisfied", not "fraud."

The word <blink>FRAUD</blink> should appear nowhere, because when PayPal receives a letter from an angry buyer, 99 times out of 100 the buyer is claiming fraud by the seller. Because of this, the person reading the letter goes in with the expectation that everything bad you say, all the accusations of fraud, flimflammery and general iniquity, are aimed at the seller unless clearly stated otherwise. I think you would have to have gotten a very careful and conscientious customer service rep who very carefully scrutinized the letter and had some familiarity with the situation in order for that letter to have been interpreted as it was intended.

Anyone writing to PayPal on this matter should first very carefully spell out the facts of the matter, clearly stating who's who and what's what (names, dates, numbers, etc.) along with a big smiley "satisfied" before launching into vague accusations and threats of retaliation, and to be honest, I think the vague accusations and threats of retaliation are probably not going to be too helpful anyway.

* And you know what you do to you and me when you assume.

 

[brak1]

I'm sure I'm one of the folks whose payment is currently in limbo. I was thinking of writing PayPal with a letter that would essentially boil down to something along the lines of:

"I have received the services for which I paid, yet Mr. Morrissey has not been allowed access to the funds I sent through your service.

Please allow Mr. Morrissey to, at the very least, retreive the funds I paid through your service, as holding funds in a transaction which has concluded successfuly seems a breach of trust on your part."

Trying to be nonconfrontational and bland here. I just don't see why they have to freeze ALL the funds, especially for transactions which have already concluded. Seems like stealing to me. A company whose major tool is software should be able to use software to discern the difference between money that is in dispute and money which has been successfuly traded for a good or service.

I'm probably being naive, but oh well.