Improved Grab as a Free Action?

[Ogrork the Mighty]

The entry for speaking as a free action outside your turn seems to indicate that unless otherwise stated, free actions may only be taken during your turn.

So you would be able to grapple as a free action on an AoO unless that AoO occurred during your turn.

I think you mean you would NOT be able to grapple, correct?

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Nope, apple to apples and the apple is the free action, which you get on your own turn with the exception of talking.

You've been around long enough to know that using terms like "nope" is annoying. You should know better.

But it is apples and oranges because there is no linkage between the AoO attack and Quick Draw. You're making a connection but that's not written into an ability the way grappling as a free action is written into Improved Grab. Improved Grab specifically says you can start a grapple as a free action. Now if Improved Grab said you could then Quick Draw a weapon as a free action after your attack, then we'd be talking apples to apples.

 

[Freakohollik]

You can definitely use improved grab off an AoO when it's not your turn. The improved grab language states, "It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action." See "It can", it does not state "it can if it has a free action". In this case I think the intent is clear.

frankthedm, do you not allow players to speak in character when it's not their turn? After all, speaking is a free action.

 

[Runestar]

frankthedm, do you not allow players to speak in character when it's not their turn? After all, speaking is a free action.

The rules specifically makes provision for this.

Speak

In general, speaking is a free action that you can perform even when it isn’t your turn. Speaking more than few sentences is generally beyond the limit of a free action.

Why would speaking have such a provision, if free actions could be performed at any time?

You can definitely use improved grab off an AoO when it's not your turn. The improved grab language states, "It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action."

It still doesn't allow you to circumvent any limitations of free actions.



It is like a giant provoking an AoO for attempting to sunder your weapon without the improved sunder feat. If it is out of your range, you can't follow up on the AoO - you are still subject to all the constraints governing AoOs in general.

 

[Freakohollik]

The rules specifically makes provision for this.

Oops. My mistake. Argument still stands though.

Why would speaking have such a provision, if free actions could be performed at any time?

All free actions can not be performed at any time. These particular ones can.

It still doesn't allow you to circumvent any limitations of free actions.

It is like a giant provoking an AoO for attempting to sunder your weapon without the improved sunder feat. If it is out of your range, you can't follow up on the AoO - you are still subject to all the constraints governing AoOs in general.

The above is true and I don't always like it. But, it doesn't have anything to do with improved grab.

3e core action types couldn't be taken when it wasn't your turn. It's why later books introduced the immediate action. Since the immediate action didn't exist yet, free action was used. I always thought the text was clear, and I've never seen anyone argue the issue.

When I read the text I interpret that the grapple starts after the attack. The text points out that it is a free action so you know that it doesn't take away any other actions on your turn as starting a grapple is otherwise a standard action.