Improved Metamagic and Heighten Spell
- Thread starter LordAO
- Start date
ruleslawyer
Registered User
Arrgh. WotC boards changed; I can't search the bloody archived boards now. The post was on the FR Spells and Magic board, as well as (IIRC) on the Forgotten Realms General board.
WattsHumphrey
First Post
See, my group has always figured that heighten spell has a variable level increase... i.e. if you choose 2 levels, it increases by 2, etc.
Therefore, we've been not sure how to handle heighten spell either. Can you take a fireball and do the following:
fireball 3rd level spell.
heightened (2 levels) fireball 4th level spell.
heightened (2 levels) heightened (2 levels) fireball 5th level spell.
heightened (2 levels) heightened (2 levels) heightened (2 levels) fireball 6th level spell.
etc.
This, of course, will all go away with the metamagic stacking changing and already goes away depending on how you handle heighten spell and improved metamagic.
Therefore, we've been not sure how to handle heighten spell either. Can you take a fireball and do the following:
fireball 3rd level spell.
heightened (2 levels) fireball 4th level spell.
heightened (2 levels) heightened (2 levels) fireball 5th level spell.
heightened (2 levels) heightened (2 levels) heightened (2 levels) fireball 6th level spell.
etc.
This, of course, will all go away with the metamagic stacking changing and already goes away depending on how you handle heighten spell and improved metamagic.
WattsHumphrey said:
Not sure what you are trying to say or do with Heighten(2 levels)?
Fireball is a 3rd level spell - As such its Dc for saves is 10+level(3rd)+stat, so its 13+stat.
If you Heighten it to 4th level-it now IS a 4th level spel-uses a 4th level slot, has DC of 14+stat. In this case you raised spell 1 level so Heighten basically has a cost of +1
Heighten it to 5th-it now is 5th level spell-uses 5th level slot, has a DC of 15+stat. In this case you raised spell 2 levels so Heighten basically has a cost of +2.
You don't heighten for +1, then Heighten by +1 more for +2.
You use Heighten once-the cost is variable-depending on how many levels you raise the spell.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
He's talking about the benefit of Improved Metamagic.
If you define Heighten Spell as "A Heightened Spell is treated as a spell X levels higher. The spell takes up a slot X levels higher than the base spell", then with Improved Metamagic, it would become "The spell takes up a slot X-1 levels higher than the base spell (minimum of 1 level higher)."
So if X = 2, then you can Heighten a spell 2 levels, taking up a slot 1 level higher than the base spell. If you do that three times, then you get a spell 6 levels higher than the base spell, but only taking up a slot 3 levels higher.
But it all hinges on the interpretation of Heighten Spell, and not everyone will see it that way.
-Hyp.
)
Thels
First Post
I think the problem is that they made Heighten Spell a Metamagic Feat, while it does something completely different.
Except for Heighten Spell, all Metamagic Feats give a spell higher powers, but let it upuse a higher spell slot. It doesn't get a higher spell, so it doesn't increase DC's and stuff like that.
When you cannot or do not want to cast spells of a certain level, you could fill these slots with spells from a lower level. These spells count as the level they were originally, so their spell DC's haven't been improved. The only thing Heighten Spell does is let the spells count as the level of the slot they are using, which is higher, so the DC increases. This has nothing to do with any of the other Metamagic Feats in my Eyes.
Except for Heighten Spell, all Metamagic Feats give a spell higher powers, but let it upuse a higher spell slot. It doesn't get a higher spell, so it doesn't increase DC's and stuff like that.
When you cannot or do not want to cast spells of a certain level, you could fill these slots with spells from a lower level. These spells count as the level they were originally, so their spell DC's haven't been improved. The only thing Heighten Spell does is let the spells count as the level of the slot they are using, which is higher, so the DC increases. This has nothing to do with any of the other Metamagic Feats in my Eyes.
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