Improved Toughness

[elbandit]

Since Complete Warrior introduced the Imprived Toughness feat I was wondering if other GMs was having the feat replace the Dwarf, Giant and Dragon Toughness feats or are GMs allowing all 4 to be used in thier campaign.

Strangely none of the creature toughness feats were in Complete Warrior

Thoughts?

 

[Philip]

I find it strange that Toughness is not a prereq for Improved Toughness.

 

[ThirdWizard]

I'm not allowing it in my game. I don't think it's balanced against the core feats. But, that's just my oppinion on it.

 

[Scion]

Against the core feats? I guess you mean against toughness, which by all accounts is a very bad feat to take in nearly every circumstance. So yes, against a feat that is very very weak this other one seems stronge. Cool. It should be made core.

 

[pawsplay]

I think it was one more way of WotC's saying, We really like Eldritch Knights. A caster with one level of Fighter qualifies.

Note: until 3rd level, Toughness is still better. Nonetheless, Toughness should have been a prereq, I think. Also, it is not a stackable Feat.

 

[MerakSpielman]

In one of the netbooks (either the netbook of feats or Gryffin's book of 3rd edition feats) there is a Toughness chain of feats - each requiring the previous one as a prerequisite as well as a progressively higher fort save. The names of them don't really matter, but it went something like:
Toughness +3 hp
Toughness2 +6 hp
Toughness3 +9 hp
Toughness4 +12 hp

They can all be retaken for more HP.

I never saw them as unbalanced. Sure, you can use them to optimize a fighter for massive HP, but he has to give up learning advanced combat techniques to do it.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Look at it this way, the difference between the d4 and d6 is the same as between the d6 and d8, is the same betwen the d8 and d10, is the same between the d10 and d12: 1 hit point. A feat to increase your Hit Die, effectivly, one die type? Retroactively? It is also the same as increasing your Con by 2 points (for purposes of hp only). Any other feat that does something like this (Spell Focus, Weapon Focus, Dodge) only apply under certain circumstances, so their effect is limited.

The epic feat now gives 30 hp, yes, but ironically, after level 30, this feat is better (not really a point against it, just a quirky thing).

Maybe that's not reason enough to ban it, but I think its reasno enough to be wary of it.