Improving amount of skill points a good idea?

[Sound of Azure]

With my upcoming campaign, I was considering a few options in regards to skill points. It seems as if many characters are lacking in "background skills", especially for the classes with only 2 base skill points per level.

This campaign will feature mostly human PCs, with a few human derived "races", that don't get the human bonus skill points.

Here's a few ideas I had:

* Every class has +1 (2?) base skill points extra (x4 at 1st level) for Knowledge, Profession, and Craft skills. Profession a class skill for every class.
* Every class has +1 (2?) base skill points extra (x4 at 1st level) to be used in any skill. Profession a class skill for every class.
*Every character gets a pool of 4-8 skill points at 1st level to use for Craft, Knowledge, and Profession.

Has anyone tried anything like this before, and what were the ramifications? Should I just leave the system alone?

 

[Spatzimaus]

Has anyone tried anything like this before, and what were the ramifications? Should I just leave the system alone?

I've done something similar; each race had two or three "racial skills", which were almost always Craft, Profession, or Knowledge skills. Most races got an extra 1 skill point per level (4 at first level) which could only be spent on these skills, and they'd always be class skills. The Human +1 skill point bonus applied to racial skills, not general skills, but they could pick any skill for one of their racial skills (the others were set: Speak Language and Profession (Any), if I recall).

Anyway, it worked well; all the dwarves had a rank or two of Craft skills dealing with metal and stone, all the elves had knowledge of nature and could work with wood, the halflings knew how to cook, that sort of thing.

So, with your concept, here's the problems I can see:
1> Skill-limited PrCs become a LOT easier to get into, especially those that use Knowledge (nature), (religion) or (arcana) to pseudo-limit it to specific classes.
2> Profession skills are mostly worthless outside of making money, with the exception of DM-created situations, like needing Profession (sailor) while in a fight on a ship. Craft is mostly worthless outside of making money, with a few exceptions (I had a Shaper psion who used fabricate to turn random rocks and trees into sculptures). But Knowledge skills have definite uses for adventurers. Now, I'd say this is still okay, but realize that if you do this, 90% of the skill ranks in question will probably go to Knowledge skills.
3> If you allow any race to take any Craft/Knowledge/Profession skill, it really blurs the lines between races. What's the point of the Dwarven metal/stone bonus when an Elf can just spend his extra points on those Craft skills?

But overall, I agree with the general concept: more skill points in minor skills is generally a good thing, as it keeps characters from getting too one-dimensional.

 

[Sound of Azure]

Hey, cheers for the input Spatzimus.

Racially selected skills: very cool!

Since I am creating a bunch of regional feats anyway, setting these bonus skills points to a limited list based on region seems to be the way to go.

I should have numbered the ideas, though, as they were seperate, essentially. oops...

On your points:

1) Yes, indeed. It'd also make it easier to get into the "caster classes", if I still do that idea. Not sure if that's good or not. Still, if it's limited by region, as above, that would be suitable, and set up places for great sages, craftsmen, etc.

2) Good point. I suspect you'll be very right about the Profession skills, but with Craft my players love for their PCs to be self-sufficient, especially the warrior types. On Knowledge, I'd be really happy for more PCs to have knowledge of the world at large, and through them, the Players.
I'm not planning for this to be "race against time" campaign for the most part, so it would be good to give them something to do during this time (crafting, for example).

3) Not elves, or Dwarves! But point is valid, nonetheless. Providing regional variation will be the "spice" of those backgrounds. Certain regions would have other skills in their lists, too perhaps.


Yes, I'd really like to have warriors that can do more than jump and climb, or a rogue from a mountain monastary with religious knowledge, and things like that.

Cheers again!

 

[ValhallaGH]

Not a bad idea. Not enough, for my tastes, but it's a good start.

The only possible problems I can forsee come from the interaction with the Skill-Buff magics; those spells and items that were developed to compensate for the lack of skill points work equally well on someone with ranks in the skill as they do on someone without ranks. A friend of mine can make a 17th level character with a +150 Bluff check because of those aforementioned spells and items.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating fewer skill points. I'm advocating the removal of most spells and items that increase skill bonuses, while adding in more skill points.
When a non-invisible Assassin can take 1 on his in-combat hide checks and still be unspotable by the entire group he's fighting is when I know that something is wrong with skill buffing items and spells.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Keeping in mind that I like skills and feats A LOT , I'll just pitch in and say that for d20 fantasy (when that's not True20 or the like) I use +1 skp / level (+4 @ 1st), and a feat every odd hit die.

Works great. No issues whatsoever, and I've been using those (fairly minor) alterations for quite a while now. I recommend it!

Mind you, I've heard good things from those who grant extra skills for Craft/Profession or suchlike, and other variations on the basic theme. It seems to work out fine, whichever way.

 

[Sound of Azure]

ValhallaGH

errr....*gulp* That's very high!

At the very least, skill enhancing items will be limited, as magic items are going to be very rare. This is one of the reasons I'm trying to help the PCs be more independent and capable. I'll have to watch those spells now! thanks

Aus_snow

hehe, fair enough. Am considering granting a free "regional feat" at first level at the moment. With less emphasis on magic, additional feats may be interesting. Thanks for the input!

 

[smootrk]

My own thoughts for additional skill points come from a need to tie characters to their backgrounds.

I generally tie a group of bonus skill points (and the designation of some select class skills) to certain thematic backgrounds... although the racial selection is another good area to expand my thoughts with.

For Example
A character who is making a 'knightly fighter' (not to be confused with Paladins/Knight Class/or any PRC) would have bonus ranks in Knowledge Nobility, Riding, Animal handling etc.
A character concept that entails coming a farm environment might have some simple craft and profession skills dropped on the character, while a urbanite street rat concept might gain some rather roguish skills regardless of actual class.

For me, the thinking process is quite organic and interactive with my player, to help achieve the character concept desired. They tell me what their character is all about, and I try to work with them to grant appropriate bonus skills for them.

 

[Spatzimaus]

A friend of mine can make a 17th level character with a +150 Bluff check because of those aforementioned spells and items.

As has been said before: This only happens if the DM LETS him, since the DMG magic item pricing guidelines are just that, GUIDELINES, they're not a freeform construction kit for the players to use at will. If you want to get into the abuses possible under the magic item system, we'll be here all day.

 

[Laman Stahros]

I give +2 skill points per level for the 20 level classes only and a feat at every odd level instead of at levels divided by three. I have been doing this for a year now with my current campaign and I have had no problems.

 

[Paraxis]

What I do is any racial bonus or feat that gives a +2 or more is a always considered a class skill. Also I combined a couple of redundant skills, listen & spot become Notice, climb & jump become Athletics, tumble & balance become acrobatics, disable device & pick lock become disable device.

With these changes most characters have enough skill points to flush out more background skills.

As far as feat progression go, replace normal chart with a feat every odd level and every even level a bonus ability score point (can not put in same score twice in a row). This works out fine every level you gain something no matter class, and as long as ability scores don't start too high or magic items run rampant bonus abilities are not to bad.

And the feats are not a big change at all only 3 extra feats spread out over 20 levels and only 1 extra before level 10.