Improving Heavy Armor

[comrade raoul]

Staffan gets to the big advantage of heavy armor. The rules assume that in a normal campaign, characters won't have all the high ability scores they want; they'll have to prioritize some over others. So a fighter who wears heavy armor can be expected to have better Str and Con scores than one who's got enough Dex to get the most out of a chain shirt; I think this is pretty reasonable.

Note that I think this sort of argument only goes so far, especially at high levels. Thus, I still think it still makes sense to have a feat chain that is aimed at the heavy-armor fighter. Here's mine:

Armor Focus [General]
You are especially good at wearing a certain type of armor.
Prerequisite: Armor Proficiency (light, medium, or heavy), Base attack bonus +1 or higher
Benefit: Choose a certain type of armor, such as full plate or the chain shirt. You must be proficient with the type you choose. When wearing that type of armor, increase your maximum Dexterity bonus to AC in that armor by +1 and reduce the armor check penalty of that armor by –2. You can also get into and out of your chosen armor in half the normal time.

Armor Specialization [Special]
You are an expert at wearing a certain type of armor.
Prerequisite: Armor Focus, Base attack bonus +4 or higher, Fighter level 4th+
Benefit: Choose a certain type of armor; one that you've already taken the Armor Focus feat with. Increase the armor bonus provided by that type of armor by +1. Further, treat your chosen armor as one step lighter for purposes of you determining your speed (that is, characters in medium armor move at their normal speeds, and characters in heavy armor can run at quadruple speed, not triple), and you may sleep in armor you're specialized with without adverse effects.

Armored Bastion [Special]
Your mastery of a type of heavy armor allows you to maximize its defensive possibilities.
Prerequisite: Armor Focus, Base attack bonus +8 or higher, Armor Specialization, Fighter level 4th+
Benefit: Choose a certain type of heavy armor; one that you've already taken the Armor Focus and Armor Specialization feats with. While wearing armor of that type, you gain a damage reduction of 2/-. This stacks with any existing damage reduction.

 

[Wolf72]

me3!!!

yuppers, I went with a flat +2 for medium armors, and heavy armors got the +2 and simple DR 1 (or 2 for full plate). There is a price jump of 50gp (medium) and 200gp (heavy) as well.

and for comparison here are my feats:

choose one type of armor [leather, chainshirt, hide, splintmail ... whatever] as you would choose a weapon for specialization or focus


 Focused Armor (general, fighter) [by Wolf72]
You excel in the use of a particular armor or shield.
Prerequisite: appropriate armor feat (light, medium, heavy, shield)

Benefits: Choose one specific type of armor, you get -1 ACP and +1 max dex bonus. Shields only benefit from the –1 ACP.


 Armor Specialist (general, fighter) [by Wolf 72]
Your superior skill with armor allows you to use it more effectively.
Prerequisites: +3 BAB, Focused Armor

Benefit: With the specific type of armor [ie: chainmail or half-plate, or etc] you are focused you gain a +1 dodge bonus to AC (it stacks with other dodge stuff). You lose this bonus any time you would lose a normal dodge bonus.

Special: You do not need the Focused Armor feat if you want ot specialize with a shield (buckler, small, large).

 Armored Mobility (general, fighter) [by Wolf72]
You are an expert at moving in a specific type of heavy armor.
Prerequisites: +2 BAB, Focused Armor

Benefit: Armor counts as one category less for you (minimum of light). This allows you to move faster with medium armor (or use a ranger’s special abilities), or use the full run ability in heavy armor.

Special: This feat does not stack with any other ability that lessens the weight or encumbrance of armor, specifically mithral (a suit of mithral half-plate will not count as light armor).

[note: these feats are like weapon focus/spec ... you take a specific armor ... like a breastplate and from then on that feat applies to breastplates ... mithral, standard, wooden, whatever.]

 

[Thresher]

I really like what you've done with the armours there Wolf72, that much more how I envisioned them working. I might run it past my gaming group next weekend and see what they think, some of it probably wont be applicable but we'll certainly have a look at it for ya

 

[IndyPendant]

There's an assumption here: that all tanks will have a high dex. When I saw this thread, I almost decided to go with the +1 Medium/+2 Heavy rule myself--until I realized that the only PCs that would use it, the Dwarven Cleric and the NPC Fighter, are deliberately going the heavy armour route--so that they can free up Dex points for other stats.

That, in my mind, is where all this breaks down. If a Fighter wants to go high Dex, by all means let him. In most campaigns, this means low Strength and/or Con due to lack of Stat points. And even if he takes Weapon Finesse for the Dex-based attacks--he's still getting little-to-nothing in bonus damage. And if they go high Dex--by all means, they should go with lighter armour. After all, what are Swashbucklers/Fencers/etc etc for? : )

That's what heavy armour is for, I think. So that the tanks don't *have* to go high Dex to have a good AC in a fight. So I've decided against using this rule. In most campaigns, I don't see that it's needed.

 

[Wolf72]

thanks thresher,

good luck. let me know of any changes or comments that are made so I can modify what I have (or reword or whatever)

arrroooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Khaalis]

Hey Wolf - Off topic:

How did you get the table pasted in? What are the commands in vB for the tables?

Thanks!

 

[haiiro]

How did you get the table pasted in? What are the commands in vB for the tables?

I believe the vB code for tables is the word "code" in square brackets (like [this]), followed by "/code" in square brackets at the end of the table. This will preserve your spacing, including any tabs, etc.; it works best if you compose in notepad and then C&P it into your post, IMO.

Here's a link to EN World's page of vB code basics: http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/misc.php?s=&action=bbcode. Hope this helps.

 

[Marshall]

That, in my mind, is where all this breaks down. If a Fighter wants to go high Dex, by all means let him. In most campaigns, this means low Strength and/or Con due to lack of Stat points. And even if he takes Weapon Finesse for the Dex-based attacks--he's still getting little-to-nothing in bonus damage. And if they go high Dex--by all means, they should go with lighter armour. After all, what are Swashbucklers/Fencers/etc etc for? : )

The problem is that 'stat-gain' items are ridiculously cheap.
A Mithral Breastplate and DEX +6 item is just as good as full plate and doesnt encumber your mobility or saddle you with high ACP. That for a total of around 20Kgp.

Once you add in cheap Stat items, it doesnt matter if you have a low dex PC. He will enventually migrate to lighter armor. If for no other reason then to allow him to run away from fights where he is in over his head.

 

[Eldorian]

I'm of the camp that says adding DR as a founding mechanic to armor is bad. The game works better if armor = AC.

That said, meduim armor should be better than light armor as martial weapons are to simple. Heavy would corespond to exotic weapons in that analogy. After all, they do require feats.

I think the best way to improve heavy and medium armor is to turn the movement penalties from feet per move equivalent to x3 run for medium and no run for heavy. I think it is much better game balance wise.

It makes sense in the real world too. You jog just as fast in chainmail as in leather, but you can't run as fast, and in plate, you simply can't run, max speed is jog.

Also, medium and heavy armor need higher max dex, perhaps a +2 global (light armors too). And the max dex needs to scale with level, because dex scales with level. So there aught to be better armor materials to get higher max dex. Perhaps a magic armor special ability called Flexible, which for +1 increases the max dex of your armor by 3. And some epic upgrades on that for epic levels. Paladins and Heavy fighters should keep wearing heavy armor even at high levels. The only characters I've seen wear plate in a long time has been clerics, who spend thier treasure on things other than dex, and used dex as the dump stat to begin with. Warriors all need light armor for the mobility.

I don't think this would overpower armor, because armor check penalties are vicious. (we take swim, take the negative of our bonus, and call it our drown skill).

Also I'm not quite happy with the effectiveness of shields, but adding AC to them would overpower them once they start getting magical. Shields lower offensive output by approximatly a third, but at low to mid levels, thier reterned defence is about a forth.

Also, I am interested in feats that work off armor, but have yet to see a set that I really liked. Perhaps comrade raoul's armor specilization as Armor focus, with his armor focus requrements, and his Armored Bastion as Armor Specilization, which would be fighter only, and only DR 1.

Eldorian Antar

 

[Stalker0]

The problem is that 'stat-gain' items are ridiculously cheap.
A Mithral Breastplate and DEX +6 item is just as good as full plate and doesnt encumber your mobility or saddle you with high ACP. That for a total of around 20Kgp.

Or I could get a +3 fullplate and +3 large shield, and be ahead of the game. Also fighters don't get uncanny dodge and don't usually have high initiatives, so for them often dex isn't as good as protection as armor.

I'm all for the creation of new feats to increase AC for armor. At high levels, attack ratings tend to increase much more then AC, which I think detracts from the game. Other ways to increase AC are a good thing, and also promote using more tactics like grappling and tripping instead of just hacking away.

As for the DR on armor, I can't agree with that. Unless your doing a total rewrite of the system, like the grim and gritty system (which is a great system by the way) your going to run into problems. What about weaking monks? Does the DR stack with barb DR? Does that mean that spells like creeping doom don't effect characters in heavy armor?

These are just a few questions, and lots more come up. If heavy armor is seen as inferior, why not just increase the bonus to AC?