Improving Heavy Armor

[Azure Trance]

Besides, it helps keep things interesting. Wearing heavy adamantite plate (Hardness 30?) would give DR 6/-; not something to sneeze at.

To help offset this, most materials now have various "material bonuses" that now stack with magical weapon enhancement. "Fine Steel" is the analog of 3E Masterwork and gives a +1 attack bonus, while adamantite becomes pretty significant.

Heavy adamantium? Adamantium by itself is only Hardness 20, and I don't know where heavy feature comes from. Magic of Faerun?

I have Forged In Magic, and among the half-dozen or so new metals found within I'm a bit dissappointed that only Wolf Iron (Tungsten) has a hardness of 15. The rest are usually 12 oe 13 or somesuch.

 

[Malin Genie]

IMHO the best solution (which I implemented IMC) is to get rid of Chain Shirt. That's the only change needed - it is the only armour that's 'out of place' on the basic table. It also has the additional aesthetic advantage (especially if you also remove Breastplate, as I did) of getting rid of 'piecemeal' armours, where you wear chainmail or plate, respectively, over your torso only.

Studded Leather works well as the best light armour - unless at v. high Dex there's significant (+2 AC) incentive to go Medium, paid for by decreased mobility.

 

[Azure Trance]

IMHO the best solution (which I implemented IMC) is to get rid of Chain Shirt. That's the only change needed - it is the only armour that's 'out of place' on the basic table. It also has the additional aesthetic advantage (especially if you also remove Breastplate, as I did) of getting rid of 'piecemeal' armours, where you wear chainmail or plate, respectively, over your torso only.

Studded Leather works well as the best light armour - unless at v. high Dex there's significant (+2 AC) incentive to go Medium, paid for by decreased mobility.

I thought breastplate was actually quite common though. An image I can conjure often is that of a Conquistador with pointy hat in breastplate, or alternatively pikemen in breastplate. Something of a, not good enough to get plate or full plate, but almost ...

 

[Hawkshere]

Some food for thought here.

I've long pondered a DR-based armor system, but I'm persuaded to refrain from such large changes. Instead, I've stolen several other ideas from this thread (thanks guys, hehe ), and written up a treatment of the subject for my new campaign. This is mostly a rehash of existing ideas, modified for my house rules. Criticism is welcome.

--------------------

MOVEMENT IN ARMOR

Base movement rates for wearing medium and heavy armor in the PHB are unduely penalized. Under this house rule, base movement speed (walking) is unaffected by armor, as long as the wearer has the appropriate armor feat. However, speeds faster than walking are limited as follows: medium armor imposes a maximum movement rate of Run (x3) and heavy armor limits the wearer to Hustle (x2) speed.

ARMOR FEATS

Armor Focus (General, Fighter)
You excel in the use of a particular type of armor.

Prerequisite: appropriate armor feat (light, medium, heavy)

Benefits: Choose one specific type of armor. Your armor check penalty is reduced by 2 and the maximum Dexterity bonus is raised by 1 (to a maximum of +4) with this armor. The armor check penalty cannot be lowered below zero.

Special: The character can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time the character takes the feat, it applies to a new armor type.

Armor Mobility (General, Fighter)
You are an expert at moving in custom-fitted armor.

Prerequisites: +5 BAB, Armor Focus, Mobility, custom masterwork armor

Benefit: Choose an armor type with which you already have the Armor Focus feat. As long as you are wearing masterwork, custom-made armor of this type, your armor check penalty is reduced by 4 and the maximum Dexterity bonus is raised by 3 (to a maximum of +6). These effects do not stack with the Armor Focus feat. The armor check penalty cannot be lowered below zero

Special: The character can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time the character takes the feat, it applies to a new armor type.

CRITICAL DEFENSE

The very purpose of worn armor is to provide protection to vital areas of the body, and should provide some measure of protection against critical hits that cannot be gained with non-armor AC bonuses.

This house rule defines an addition property to armor called critical defense. The critical defense value raises an opponent's critical confirmation DC by the listed amount. As a rule of thumb, any armor or natural armor bonus provides critical defense at ½ the AC bonus. This includes the appropriate enhancement bonuses, thus +5 full plate has an effective critical defense of 6. The resulting armor list looks like this:

Armor Table

[color=gold]                            Armor   Max  Check    Crit	
Armor             Cost(gp)  Bonus   Dex  Penalty  Def   Weight
--------------    --------  -----   ---  -------  ----  ------
[i]Light armor[/i]
Padded	              5      +1     +8      0      0    10 lb.
Leather              10      +2     +6      0      1    15 lb.
Studded leather      25      +3     +5     -1      1    20 lb.
Chain shirt         100	     +4     +4     -2	   2    25 lb.

[i]Medium armor[/i]
Hide                 15      +3     +4     -3      2    25 lb.
Scale mail           50      +4     +3     -4      2    30 lb.
Chainmail           150      +5     +2     -5      2    40 lb.
Breastplate         200      +5     +3     -4      2    30 lb.

[i]Heavy armor[/i]
Splint mail         200      +6     +0     -7      3    45 lb.
Banded mail         250      +6     +1     -6      3    35 lb.
Half-plate          600      +7     +0     -7      3    50 lb.
Full plate        1,500      +8     +1     -6      4    50 lb.
[/color]

Note that Keen weapons can bypass the effect of critical defense. Keen weapons ignore critical defense values equal to or less than their enhancement bonus. Thus, a +2 keen dagger would ignore any critical defense of 2 or less.

 

[Urza82]

I was wondering about making new armor, its a bigger form than full plate.

Greater Plate
AC Bonus: +12
Max Dex Mod: -1
Check Penalty: -12
Weight: 100 lbs
Movement: 10' 5'

 

[Marshall]

Nonsense. A +6 Dex item costs 36,000 gp.

Yeah, Screwed up the cost should be 40K

Our intrepid hero could just buy Winged Boots for 12,000 gp. Or a custom combo Winged Boots of Speed for 28,000 and wear the heavy armor. That is a lot better than a +6 Dex item unless you really care about Dex-based skills.

I'd still rather get the full speed 90, instead of 60, out of the Winged Boots or get speed 60 out of the S&S, instead of 40.

The speed difference stays as the Armor bonus percentage gets smaller and smaller.

 

[Technik4]

Totally agree with Malin Genie

The problem here is not really "heavy armors". The problem is a light armor that provides +4 to AC with a +4 dex mod. IMC I would either totally remove Chain Shirt or make it a medium-weight armor. Rogues and anyone else wanting fast movement should take the corresponding penalty, less AC.

Technik

 

[Khorod]

Some interesting thoughts bouncing around here.

What if armor (not shields) gave only a DR?

Say, each armor has a base DR, then add material hardness/5 to that, and you're done...

 

[jlhorner1974]

The problem with having armor = DR is that weapon damage in D&D is low enough that very little damage would get through.

In a futuristic setting where common weapons are firearms that do 2d6 to 2d10 damage on average, this is okay. This is enough to get something through even the heaviest armor (usually DRs of about 7 or 8) at least a fair amount of the time, although the heaviest armor does reduce devastating hits to more tolerable ones.

In D&D where a typical weapon does d6 or d8 damage before modifiers, a character in DR 8 armor is (without strength bonuses or magical enhancements) immune to normal hits from all of these weapons. Only a critical could get through, and even then do very little damage.

Picture this: A 1st level fighter wielding a dagger (1d4, x2 crit) that has no strength bonus, has NO CHANCE to hurt another fighter in armor with DR 8, even on a critical.

In order for armor = DR to work, the damage values from weapons have to be significantly higher than they are now, and that would involve a heavy amount of rebalancing, including all armor stats, weapon damages, feats, magical weapon properties, and possibly even hit dice.

If you want armor = DR, I think it's fine, but the entire system has to be designed around that from the beginning.

 

[Eldorian]

Some food for thought here.

I've long pondered a DR-based armor system, but I'm persuaded to refrain from such large changes. Instead, I've stolen several other ideas from this thread (thanks guys, hehe ), and written up a treatment of the subject for my new campaign. This is mostly a rehash of existing ideas, modified for my house rules. Criticism is welcome.

--------------------

MOVEMENT IN ARMOR

Base movement rates for wearing medium and heavy armor in the PHB are unduely penalized. Under this house rule, base movement speed (walking) is unaffected by armor, as long as the wearer has the appropriate armor feat. However, speeds faster than walking are limited as follows: medium armor imposes a maximum movement rate of Run (x3) and heavy armor limits the wearer to Hustle (x2) speed.

ARMOR FEATS

Armor Focus (General, Fighter)
You excel in the use of a particular type of armor.

Prerequisite: appropriate armor feat (light, medium, heavy)

Benefits: Choose one specific type of armor. Your armor check penalty is reduced by 2 and the maximum Dexterity bonus is raised by 1 (to a maximum of +4) with this armor. The armor check penalty cannot be lowered below zero.

Special: The character can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time the character takes the feat, it applies to a new armor type.

Armor Mobility (General, Fighter)
You are an expert at moving in custom-fitted armor.

Prerequisites: +5 BAB, Armor Focus, Mobility, custom masterwork armor

Benefit: Choose an armor type with which you already have the Armor Focus feat. As long as you are wearing masterwork, custom-made armor of this type, your armor check penalty is reduced by 4 and the maximum Dexterity bonus is raised by 3 (to a maximum of +6). These effects do not stack with the Armor Focus feat. The armor check penalty cannot be lowered below zero

Special: The character can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time the character takes the feat, it applies to a new armor type.

CRITICAL DEFENSE

The very purpose of worn armor is to provide protection to vital areas of the body, and should provide some measure of protection against critical hits that cannot be gained with non-armor AC bonuses.

This house rule defines an addition property to armor called critical defense. The critical defense value raises an opponent's critical confirmation DC by the listed amount. As a rule of thumb, any armor or natural armor bonus provides critical defense at ½ the AC bonus. This includes the appropriate enhancement bonuses, thus +5 full plate has an effective critical defense of 6. The resulting armor list looks like this:

Armor Table

[color=gold]                            Armor   Max  Check    Crit	
Armor             Cost(gp)  Bonus   Dex  Penalty  Def   Weight
--------------    --------  -----   ---  -------  ----  ------
[i]Light armor[/i]
Padded	              5      +1     +8      0      0    10 lb.
Leather              10      +2     +6      0      1    15 lb.
Studded leather      25      +3     +5     -1      1    20 lb.
Chain shirt         100	     +4     +4     -2	   2    25 lb.

[i]Medium armor[/i]
Hide                 15      +3     +4     -3      2    25 lb.
Scale mail           50      +4     +3     -4      2    30 lb.
Chainmail           150      +5     +2     -5      2    40 lb.
Breastplate         200      +5     +3     -4      2    30 lb.

[i]Heavy armor[/i]
Splint mail         200      +6     +0     -7      3    45 lb.
Banded mail         250      +6     +1     -6      3    35 lb.
Half-plate          600      +7     +0     -7      3    50 lb.
Full plate        1,500      +8     +1     -6      4    50 lb.
[/color]

Note that Keen weapons can bypass the effect of critical defense. Keen weapons ignore critical defense values equal to or less than their enhancement bonus. Thus, a +2 keen dagger would ignore any critical defense of 2 or less.

I see you used my suggestion about movement in armor. Remove the critical defence, which I believe properly belongs on the fortifying magic property, and I think I'll use those rules. I like the feats, they are what I was looking for I think, though the prereqs on focus will include +1BAB, and I'll remove the custom fitted armor and the mobility reqs on the mobility, and perhaps rename it. How about..

Armor Focus (General, Fighter)
You excel in the use of a particular type of armor.

Prerequisite: BAB +1, Armor Proficiency
Benefit: Choose one specific type of armor that you are proficient in. Your armor check penalty is reduced by 2 and the maximum Dexterity bonus is raised by 1 with this armor. The armor check penalty cannot be lowered below zero.

Special: The character can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time the character takes the feat, it applies to a new armor type.

Armor Optimization (General, Fighter)
You are an expert at optimizing the effect of armor.

Prerequisites: +4 BAB, Armor Focus

Benefit: Choose an armor type with which you already have the Armor Focus feat. The armor bonus provided by your armor increases by 1, the maximun Dexterity bonus is raised by 2, and your armor check penalty is reduced by 3. These effects do not stack with the Armor Focus feat. The armor check penalty cannot be lowered below zero. In addition, halve all times for donning and removing armor. If the selected armor type is heavy, you can don it normally in twice the time it would take you to don it hastily.

Normal: Refer to table 7-6 on page 105 of the PHB for normal donning armor times.

Special: The character can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time the character takes the feat, it applies to a new armor type.


Eldorian Antar