Level Up (A5E) Improvised Weapons: Ever the Smart Move?

[xiphumor]

Let’s be generous and assume you have proficiency with improvised weapons. Are they ever the smart move from a tactical perspective, assuming a simple weapon is available?

The Caravaner’s Circusfolk trait helps a fair deal, but a short sword will usually get the job done. The Brawler adept can add an extra martial arts die on top of such attacks, but it costs exertion to do so, and that point would probably be better spent on Flurry of Blows.

There are a handful of specific improvised weapons such as acid or holy water that can be useful, but they usually aren’t just lying around.

I ask partially because I’m thinking of making an archetype that specializes in improvised weapons.

 

[Pedantic]

Aside from the rare "you've been captured and lost your stuff" or disarming scenario, no, I don't think they ever make sense. The only situation I can see it coming up is if the player needs to switch damage types for some reason and has no access to other weapons.

 

[VenerableBede]

The problem with features that grant improvised weapon proficiency/incentives is they never do enough. As you mentioned above, there’s almost always an equal (or better) available option, making those class features almost always amount to almost nothing.
What the 5e family doesn’t have is a feature that grants improvised weapon proficiency and actually makes using an improvised weapon the better option often enough to be less niche than “I’m not an Adept and the Narrator took all of my equipment away.”

 

[xiphumor]

The problem with features that grant improvised weapon proficiency/incentives is they never do enough. As you mentioned above, there’s almost always an equal (or better) available option, making those class features almost always amount to almost nothing.
What the 5e family doesn’t have is a feature that grants improvised weapon proficiency and actually makes using an improvised weapon the better option often enough to be less niche than “I’m not an Adept and the Narrator took all of my equipment away.”

Agreed, which is what I’m trying to solve. Consider this:

Divergent Thinker​

All improvised weapons use a minimum damage die of d6 and have the finesse property for you, as well as either the dual-wielding or versatile (+1 die step) property depending on the limits of causality. (E.g. A spoon cannot gain the versatile property, and a fence post cannot gain the dual-wielding property, but a frying pan might have either). In addition, whenever you start to wield an improvised weapon, you may choose whether it has the breaker (choose material type), parrying, defensive (chosen shield size), trip, reach, or thrown (30/80) property, within the limits of causality. You may change your choice for any improvised weapons you are wielding at the start of each of your turns.

You can also improvise shields (without needing proficiency in shields) using an object one size category smaller than normal.

 

[VenerableBede]

I would need to look up the rules on improvised weapons before commenting on the damage die size.
As a low-level feature, and in campaigns where there's likely to be a fair amount of random junk lying around anyway, I could see myself using this. If magic items are handed out, probably would use it less and less as the levels came on.
The one issue I have is this primarily just brings improvised weapons on par with regular weapons. There is a buff in the sense that, within the realm of causality, I have a lot of flexibility to just grab a random item and give it the traits I might need for a specific situation, but I'm not sure that's enough to make me primarily use improvised weapons over regular weapons, or to quite bridge the gap between "Everyone else gets a feature that starts at baseline and gets a boost, while my feature focuses on something that starts well behind baseline and brings it roughly to baseline, maybe a little more." Still, I think this is the right direction.
Although since this basically turns improvised weapons into regular weapons with a little flexibility, maybe that's the point. I'll just put a bucket on my head, carry around a fire poker and a chair leg that function as a rapier and a bludgeoning long sword, and be a bargain bin Don Quixote.

 

[xiphumor]

I would need to look up the rules on improvised weapons before commenting on the damage die size.
As a low-level feature, and in campaigns where there's likely to be a fair amount of random junk lying around anyway, I could see myself using this. If magic items are handed out, probably would use it less and less as the levels came on.
The one issue I have is this primarily just brings improvised weapons on par with regular weapons. There is a buff in the sense that, within the realm of causality, I have a lot of flexibility to just grab a random item and give it the traits I might need for a specific situation, but I'm not sure that's enough to make me primarily use improvised weapons over regular weapons, or to quite bridge the gap between "Everyone else gets a feature that starts at baseline and gets a boost, while my feature focuses on something that starts well behind baseline and brings it roughly to baseline, maybe a little more." Still, I think this is the right direction.
Although since this basically turns improvised weapons into regular weapons with a little flexibility, maybe that's the point. I'll just put a bucket on my head, carry around a fire poker and a chair leg that function as a rapier and a bludgeoning long sword, and be a bargain bin Don Quixote.

I should mention that the specific class I’m designing for (the savant) doesn’t get martial weapons by default, so if I can bring improvised weapons up to the point of acting like a martial weapon, I’ll have given a significant bonus. Nonetheless, I intend to make this an optional feature with the alternative centering around more typical weapons.

 

[Timespike]

Improvised weapons are basically never as good as purpose-built ones IRL, either. In a fight, which would you rather have: a pipe wrench, or a flanged mace? A box cutter or a tanto? A zip gun or a Beretta M92?

But the improvised weapons are still better than nothing. If your opponent has a knife and you can't get away, a pool cue, broken bottle, or table leg is definitely better than your bare hands.

 

[xiphumor]

Improvised weapons are basically never as good as purpose-built ones IRL, either. In a fight, which would you rather have: a pipe wrench, or a flanged mace? A box cutter or a tanto? A zip gun or a Beretta M92?

But the improvised weapons are still better than nothing. If your opponent has a knife and you can't get away, a pool cue, broken bottle, or table leg is definitely better than your bare hands.

This is true, but the character trope of the MacGyver-like character who snaps a toothbrush and fights as effectively as his prepared assassins definitely exists, and I think there should be at least one archetype that plays into that fantasy.

 

[Timespike]

This is true, but the character trope of the MacGyver-like character who snaps a toothbrush and fights as effectively as his prepared assassins definitely exists, and I think there should be at least one archetype that plays into that fantasy.

Oh, I definitely agree. I'd go so far as to say it would be both easy and fitting to do such an archetype for no less than four different classes: adept, artificer, fighter, and rogue.

Heck, I could see it as a minor focus for an archetype for berserker or ranger for sure, and maybe even herald.

 

[xiphumor]

As mentioned, I'm currently working on such a savant, which already gets proficiency in improvised weapons, so they seem like an obvious pick.