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<blockquote data-quote="Illithidbix" data-source="post: 6791829" data-attributes="member: 12283">The morale rules from 2E AD&amp;D are the aspect of the game I've most felt the absence from in 3E and 4E. It's good the 5E DMG finally put it back in as a suggestion, but the 2E AD&amp;D took time to explain why morale and monsters not fighting to the death is important. Mainly because it wasn't just rules, it was an explanation and discussion of morale, and an encouragement for the DM to use their judgement instead of rolling, where possible.And a set of rules to use if the DM was unsure with clear guidelines about &quot;just don't roll if the monsters shouldn't be scared.&quot;The table of modifiers were a bit fiddly if you had to add them all up, but generally, pretty sensible.Trouble with Wisdom Saves is that it's often actually the weaker stats of soldier type monsters.It also kinda rules out low level fanatics, or high level cowards.Yeah, you can grant advantage in such situations but Morale is really a stat that works best as it's own based upon the characteristics, motivation and personality of the monsters.Although I barely played 2E, part of it has stuck in my mind: So much I'm going to quote it:So mostly I use this, guideline.Considering monster morale is also useful (esp. in 4E) for ending fights with monsters in the &quot;mop-up&quot; stage when they players have obviously won.As others have said, if you need to roll for it, Intimidate/Persuasion/Deception checks.Whilst you could make it opposed by the monsters Wisdom or Charisma saving throw (or 10+ Wisdom/Charisma saving), I would be inclined to set the DC as appropriate for the situation.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Illithidbix, post: 6791829, member: 12283"] The morale rules from 2E AD&D are the aspect of the game I've most felt the absence from in 3E and 4E. It's good the 5E DMG finally put it back in as a suggestion, but the 2E AD&D took time to explain why morale and monsters not fighting to the death is important. Mainly because it wasn't just rules, it was an explanation and discussion of morale, and an encouragement for the DM to use their judgement instead of rolling, where possible. And a set of rules to use if the DM was unsure with clear guidelines about "just don't roll if the monsters shouldn't be scared." The table of modifiers were a bit fiddly if you had to add them all up, but generally, pretty sensible. Trouble with Wisdom Saves is that it's often actually the weaker stats of soldier type monsters. It also kinda rules out low level fanatics, or high level cowards. Yeah, you can grant advantage in such situations but Morale is really a stat that works best as it's own based upon the characteristics, motivation and personality of the monsters. Although I barely played 2E, part of it has stuck in my mind: So much I'm going to quote it: So mostly I use this, guideline. Considering monster morale is also useful (esp. in 4E) for ending fights with monsters in the "mop-up" stage when they players have obviously won. As others have said, if you need to roll for it, Intimidate/Persuasion/Deception checks. Whilst you could make it opposed by the monsters Wisdom or Charisma saving throw (or 10+ Wisdom/Charisma saving), I would be inclined to set the DC as appropriate for the situation. [/QUOTE]

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