D&D 5E In fifth-edition D&D, what is gold for?

[Uller]

Show them, don't tell them.

The players that you do have use their gold for role-playing reasons such as lands and title and temporal power, reward them in game with the benefits of that expenditure. Describe their Castle, describe the benefits that flow from having such power. Engineer scenarios were those PCs can get problems resolved through their henchmen, or their armies or simply by their word or reputations. Set up scenarios were they can march their armies into battle with other armies; scenarios that can't be resolved with a plus one sword.

If you do it right the other two will catch on quickly, and before you know it be saving money for Keeps and titles and henchmen of their own.

Most gamist players are competitive beasts. If one PC has a Tower, and Towers matter, the rest are gonna want a bigger Tower than that other guy.

Maybe it's a phallic thing. I dunno. It's certainly something that happens in the real world so why should your games be any different?

I've been playing with them since 3e came out. In fact our first game was 2e...I don't think I'm going to change them. I don't WANT to change them. They like playing the game as gamists. Oh...and one is a woman. So...that pretty much shoots down that part of your theory.

I do reward them with in-game benefits. One of my players is rebuilding his ancestral estate (Thundertree from Lost Mines). He'll become recognized as a noble and game the various benefits associated with that background and have a steady income. Our wizard player is taking on an apprentice. He'll gain a useful and trusted cohort that can perform errands for him and even help him during adventures. But the other two aren't interested in that and will never be interested in that and, frankly, I'm fine with that. I enjoy their contributions to the game and their company at the game table. I want them to have fun in the ways they want to have fun as long as it isn't interfering with the fun of the other players or myself.

The problem some people are having is not that they are unhappy with the playstyle of their players that expect in-game uses of in-game rewards to advance their goals in-game. The problem is that playstyle is not that well supported when it comes to the in-game reward of monetary treasure...particularly in the APs published by WotC (at least the ones I've played so far).

I'm not saying your suggestions aren't good. But they aren't really solving the problem described. In PotA, it is possible for the PCs to go from 1st to 13th+ level with no real downtime. Once you get into the temples and defeat the first prophet, there is little opportunity for downtime organic to the adventure. So you have PCs finding reasonably large hauls of treasure and not much to do with it until the adventure is complete. If the players know that as soon as the adventure is over their PCs are going to be retired so they can make new ones to start a new AP then they start to see treasure as pointless and they are correct and that makes the acquisition of treasure not much fun. Suggesting that I give them good and interesting uses of treasure for after the AP doesn't really solve that problem. No one is going to think: "I better go build a castle/establish a wizard academy/found a church to my god/do some serious networking with the nobility" while faced with an apocalyptic on the verge of summoning a primal elemental power into the world or while trying to deal with a gaggle of demon princes reeking havoc in the underdark or while trying to defeat Strahd to escape Barovia or trying to fend off the Giant version of Ragnarok...

Yes...at some point all campaigns come to an end and treasure collected at the end is going to go toward the PCs living happily ever after. My players are good with that. They enjoy their PCs becoming NPCs and meeting them later to see what has become of them.

But that's not the issue. It's a 9th level PC finding a 500gp gem and having nothing to do with it other than stash it away with his other 2000gp worth of coin and gems he has nothing to do with at the moment because he already has all the best gear he can buy and tomorrow he has to go explore the Fane of the Elemental Eye before one of these cults makes another devastation orb and takes out another town...My solution to this problem was to make a few roles on the various magic item tables and present to them a chance to purchase some of these using the Sane Magic Item Prices PDF that is out there. This somewhat satisfied them.

Now I am just going to let them exchange gp for xp. We don't get to play that much so I will place opportunities to find enough gold to gain a new level every 2-3 game sessions if they convert all their wealth to xp or every 4 if they don't convert any. To convert GP to XP all they have to do is use it for downtime activities. So that paladin building his family estate...he will gain 13th level a little faster than the warlock that wants to buy a useful magic item instead.

 

[Flamestrike]

I've been playing with them since 3e came out. In fact our first game was 2e...I don't think I'm going to change them. I don't WANT to change them. They like playing the game as gamists. Oh...and one is a woman. So...that pretty much shoots down that part of your theory.

I do reward them with in-game benefits. One of my players is rebuilding his ancestral estate (Thundertree from Lost Mines). He'll become recognized as a noble and game the various benefits associated with that background and have a steady income. Our wizard player is taking on an apprentice. He'll gain a useful and trusted cohort that can perform errands for him and even help him during adventures. But the other two aren't interested in that and will never be interested in that and, frankly, I'm fine with that. I enjoy their contributions to the game and their company at the game table. I want them to have fun in the ways they want to have fun as long as it isn't interfering with the fun of the other players or myself.

It does seem to me a bit like theyre just not interested in your game world. I guess some players are like that. Still if they only play to overcome challenges, and the social experience of role-playing games, I still can't see a scenario where both of those would not be enhanced by the use of wealth to interact with the world around them.

Remember players who spend money on magic items are really just spending money on ways to do things better. There's more than one way to skin a cat. An army of mercenaries can achieve something no +1 sword ever will.

The problem some people are having is not that they are unhappy with the playstyle of their players that expect in-game uses of in-game rewards to advance their goals in-game. The problem is that playstyle is not that well supported when it comes to the in-game reward of monetary treasure...particularly in the APs published by WotC (at least the ones I've played so far).

I'm not saying your suggestions aren't good. But they aren't really solving the problem described. In PotA, it is possible for the PCs to go from 1st to 13th+ level with no real downtime.

Why aren't you giving them downtime? It can be as heavy-handed as 'yo fellas for the next three months no adventuring happens; what are you gonna do with your downtime?' Or of course you can weave it into the plot in a more organic manner. It sounds to me as if your players are simply reacting to the in game expectations you set as DM. If you provide them with opportunities for downtime and displayed what they could do with it such as building keeps and having small armies or running towns, and showed are the advantages that come with that, they might nibble.

Of course some people really genuinely arent interested in becoming lords.

But that's not the issue. It's a 9th level PC finding a 500gp gem and having nothing to do with it other than stash it away with his other 2000gp worth of coin and gems he has nothing to do with at the moment because he already has all the best gear he can buy and tomorrow he has to go explore the Fane of the Elemental Eye before one of these cults makes another devastation orb and takes out another town...My solution to this problem was to make a few roles on the various magic item tables and present to them a chance to purchase some of these using the Sane Magic Item Prices PDF that is out there. This somewhat satisfied them.

Are they not good aligned? If so why are they not spending some of that gold to help rebuild towns that have been destroyed? If they're prepared to put their lives on the line to save these towns, why they not prepared to throw a bit of money their way? Have word of their generosity spread. The town Square is renamed in their honour and statues are built of them. From that point on which have those PCs get advantage on all social skill rolls in the town. I'm sure if you think long and hard enough about you can find something for them to spend that money on to reward them.

Also at ninth level 500 GP gems are very valuable indeed. Particularly if they're diamonds.

Now I am just going to let them exchange gp for xp. We don't get to play that much so I will place opportunities to find enough gold to gain a new level every 2-3 game sessions if they convert all their wealth to xp or every 4 if they don't convert any. To convert GP to XP all they have to do is use it for downtime activities. So that paladin building his family estate...he will gain 13th level a little faster than the warlock that wants to buy a useful magic item instead.

I thought your players didn't care about engaging in downtime activities even if there was a tangible reward for doing so?

 

[Flamestrike]

Let me put it this way.

Would your PC be interested in spending 20,000 of his hard earned gold on a magical cauldron that lets him summon 100 skeletons for a tenday, as long as he puts 2000 gold of emerald dust in it (which it consumes)?

Because he could've saved the 20 grand initial outlay and simply hired 100 mercenaries for 10 days for 2000 gold.

Not as reliable as the skeletons, but zero initial outlay and they don't get you into trouble with the local LG church either. Paladins can be such a bother sometimes.

Just make sure they don't slip into brigandage at the end of their service.

 

[Ahrimon]

One of temp biggest problems, IMO, of more codified item pricing rules is that they tie the hands of the DM. I read it time and time again on these and other forums about DM's who were trying to build thier own world's and stories but their players were up in arms that they didn't have X amount of gold worth of items by level Y or that they couldn't sell unneeded item Z for price R because that's what was in the book.

I'm a huge fan of the way 5e does not put hard prices on things because it let's the DM determine how his or her world works. Magic mart, no problem, you just have to put a little effort into it. Rare magic, easy, price ranges are already provided. If you have hard coded prices then it removes that flexibility from the DM'S hands. A decanter of endless water should be worth a lot more in the Sahara than the rain forest. But if the book lists the expected price as a static amount then that is what the players will expect.

I get that were all bust people and having the numbers done for us would make life easier but it limits the community as a whole more than it is worth.

 

[Uller]

One of temp biggest problems, IMO, of more codified item pricing rules is that they tie the hands of the DM. I read it time and time again on these and other forums about DM's who were trying to build thier own world's and stories but their players were up in arms that they didn't have X amount of gold worth of items by level Y or that they couldn't sell unneeded item Z for price R because that's what was in the book.

Yes. A lot of DMs have experienced this and complained about it on these forums.

This is solvable I think. 1) It's the "PC Wealth" tables that constrained the DM. I like that 5e explicitly says it makes no assumptions about magic items in it's math. So don't include such tables or put them in the DMG with a very strong caveat that they are for DM use only. 2) As a DM I set the expectations of the level of magic in the world. Provide guidelines on the settlement size/wealth and amount of time required to buy/sell items based on rarity. Prices can be given as ranges.

 

[Igwilly]

How much money we're talking about? Comparing +1 swords with entire kingdoms seems so unequal to me. Especially considering the fact that, eventually, you'll need to give your soldiers +1 swords too. At least. Plus, adventurers who are better at adventuring do get political power.
At least in my setting.

 

[Ahrimon]

Yes. A lot of DMs have experienced this and complained about it on these forums.

This is solvable I think. 1) It's the "PC Wealth" tables that constrained the DM. I like that 5e explicitly says it makes no assumptions about magic items in it's math. So don't include such tables or put them in the DMG with a very strong caveat that they are for DM use only. 2) As a DM I set the expectations of the level of magic in the world. Provide guidelines on the settlement size/wealth and amount of time required to buy/sell items based on rarity. Prices can be given as ranges.

It's been a while so I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure the wealth by level table was in the DMG and that didn't stop 3 editions of gamers from demanding thier treasure or complaining when they didn't get it.

 

[MonkeyWrench]

I'm playing a 15th level Rogue/Bard in my friend's Spelljammer campaign. After we captured our fifth spelljamming ship, we started selling the helms and keeping the rest of the ships for Fabricate material. The money we get from selling helms (something like 100-250k gp a pop) is enough for us to run an entire flotilla of spelljamming ships, each one with a different focus/purpose: our planet side ship, our stealth ship, our barracks ship, our arcane laboratory ship, etc.

My character personally uses his wealth to hire multiple adventuring parties to follow up on old quests, keep tabs on rivals, attack his enemies all while he gallivants around the Phlogiston looking for epic adventures. He hopes to begin his own spy organization from these pools of adventures.

To answer the OP, there are no longer any mechanical benefits from spending gp, either in XP or in magic items, and I wish the DMG had a robust and functional magic item trade system in place for those of us that want it. However, I do not think such a system is necessary for players to have incentives to spend their wealth.

 

[CapnZapp]

I will be blunt.

If you don't know what good gold is for in a game, you are either running a dungeon delving fun game, or you lack depth in your ongoing campaign.

Characters take massive risks, and are rewarded disproportionately to the vast majority of others. So gold accrues unless you are shopping for yet more grapefruit sized diamonds because your Fighter can't work out when to stop running into the gaping jaws of death...

Here's a quick way to figure out what campaigns should be doing with wealth... review Game of Thrones, watch a good adaptation of The Count of Monte Christo and read about rennaisance Venice. Then how complex, dangerous and exciting money can make a campaign should be pretty obvious.

It just takes a shift in emphasis...

Did you even read the blog?

 

[CapnZapp]

But gold enables the purchase of big ticket items like a manor or castle and to establish a lifestyle as a patron in the campaign world, funding future adventurers. That's the goal anyway -- like others in the post, we seldom can make it that far in the campaign before the group changes drastically or the rules change (or the data crash looses all characters and campaign notes).

But this is what many groups aren't interested in.

Please read the actual blog posts.