In lieu of prestige classes...

[The Shaman]

I was reading the thread on creating a codex of prestige classes and one of the posters mentioned that there are something like six hundred prestige classes in WotC's books and Dragon alone, not including all the third-party stuff out there.

After the pressure subsided and I could remove my hands from the sides of my head without fear of imminent explosion, I started wondering if there was a better way to capture the 'prestige' element of prestige classes.

When I first encountered prestige classes, I thought they were madbadfun - now being a Knight of the White Horse, an Archruid of the Blackthorn Coven, or a Guildthief of Almansil could actually mean more than a shield device, a secret grove, or a fence in the City of a Thousand Domes. However, the cachet has worn away with the proliferation of PrCs along with the sense of entitlement that some (many?) players have with respect to prestige classes.

Now I'm not a GM who has a hard time saying no to players - "No, elves don't exist in the game-world," "No, you buy a spiked chain," "No, you can't take levels in ur-priest," &c. I don't plan on using more than a handful of prestige classes in my next campaign, if I use threepointfive at all that is. (C&C is looking better and better all the time.) However, I still want to make membership in an exclusive group meaningful to players and their characters somehow.

Then the idea of using something along the lines of Modern starting occupations came to mind. Each character in d20 Modern selects a starting occupation, and each SO confers a small bonus: the character may select a couple of skills as permanent class skills, gains a bonus feat or a small Wealth bump. If the character already has the skill as a class skill, an extra +1 competence bonus is added.

I'm wondering if this would be too unbalancing to bring into threepointfive D&D in lieu of prestige classes. Say for example a player running a rogue wants to join the aforementioned Thieves Guild of Almansil - after passing the initiation and being accepted by the other thieves, the rogue may on leveling up select three skills from a short list as permanent class skills or take a bonus feat from another list, as a benefit of being a member of the Guild.

This allows me to offer some mechanical advantage for participation in a game-world organization without going the whole full-blown prestige class route. It's much easier to add than creating a whole class progression and special abilities, and it's more cost effective, as I have no intention of completing my Complete... series in the future, preferring to run a core game instead.

Whaddya think?

 

[Nellisir]

I wouldn't have a problem with it. I'd suggest developing a list of prerequisites, so players that want to become a Knight of the White Stag know what they should do, and such prestige feats should be limited -- only one per character, unless the character abandons the prestige organization (which would carry its own repercussions) and forfeits -all- benefits from the prestige feat.

Cheers
Nell.

 

[Psion]

I love the mechanic (or rather, the variant of it that appeared in the Second World Sourcebook) because it makes the basic classes more adaptable.

But I don't see it as having much to do with prestige classes; it doesn't seem to me to do the same thing at all. The starting careers/backgrounds say something about, well, your background. Prestige classes are more where you are going/developing.

 

[The Shaman]

I love the mechanic (or rather, the variant of it that appeared in the Second World Sourcebook) because it makes the basic classes more adaptable.

But I don't see it as having much to do with prestige classes; it doesn't seem to me to do the same thing at all. The starting careers/backgrounds say something about, well, your background. Prestige classes are more where you are going/developing.

Sorry, Psion, I seem to have confused you. I'm not suggesting these as starting occupations, but rather as the benefit of joining an organization during the course of the campaign instead of prestige classes.

Say a character reaches Fighter 6 and meets the mechanical and roleplaying requirements to be a 'Guardian of the Pearl Citadel' - instead of a 'Pearl Tower Guardian' prestige class, the fighter may select two skills from a list of six as permanent class skills (instead gaining a +1 bonus if they are class skills already) or choosing a bonus feat from a list of five possible feats.

Does that clear it up for you a bit?

 

[Psion]

Ah... gotcha.

Yeah, I suppose that could work. IMC, I have some organizations which I decided didn't have enough specialized training to warrant a prestige class; something like that might be appropriate.

 

[maggot]

I like the idea of "Prestige Feats". Basically, a feat that has all the requirements of a Prestige Class (including roleplaying requirements), and gives out benefits like a prestige class but for only one feats worth of power instead of a whole level worth of power. You could even make a chain of these: "apprentice of the seven towers", "mage of the seven towers", "archmage of the seven towers".

This way you can avoid some problems with prestige classes:

You don't need to make up a whole class list, sprinkling in lesser abilities to make it balance out. You just make what you really want in a feat. What really makes the orginization special.

Avoids a bunch of game mechanics designed to avoid losing abilites of core classes such as the "+1 spellcaster level" thing or the "stacks with favored enemy" or "counts as monk levels for purposes of AC", etc.

Prestige Feats don't automatically boost saving throws like prestige classes do.

No one gets the benefits for free, everyone must spend a feat. No more disparity between wizards and socerers.

 

[gizmo33]

However, I still want to make membership in an exclusive group meaningful to players and their characters somehow.

Ways to avoid prestige classes and use "organizations" instead - in addition to your idea about special class skills:
1. IMO don't give up on the old school idea that this is a roleplaying issue. Be prepared as to how various character types would react to the player once they join the organization. Special features such as guild houses, free cleric magic, etc.
2. magic items that can only be used by the organization
3. certain feats that are only available
4. certain cohorts (for leadership feat)
5. certain spells
6. minor abilities that don't equate to a feat (like a +1 to sense motive or spot vs. demons for a Demon Hunter). Perhaps balance these with a code of conduct - similar to the way the paladin works.
7. special weapon proficiencies

 

[der_kluge]

You know, almost every high level character I've ever come across has some sort of "weird thing" they acquired during their adventuring career. "Oh yea, my character has the ability to summon an imp once per day - don't ask, it's a long story." That kind of stuff. I'm really in favor of those kinds of things. I think it can add a lot to the development of a character. More so than prestige classes can.

In other words, I'm intrigued by your ideas, and and interested in subscribing to your newsletter.

 

[The Shaman]

Great suggestions so far! Please keep 'em coming!

 

[Ace]

I don't use PRC's IMC --

What I do is give feats at 1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15,17, and 19

Three extra feats allow some of the extra oomph that would be normally had from a PRC.

I also have an extended feat tree with some PRC abilities written as feats at the same level a PC culd get them . This was players can have fast fient (ala the Invisible Blade prc) or Supreme Cleave or the like