In support of slightly heavy-handed DMing...

[kiznit]

Okay, so had a bitchin' game session this evening. This might be a little long to get to the point, so please bear with me. Check this out.

Got a batch of five relative newbies (well four and one old-school campaigner), all pretty much really into it so far despite previous gaming experience mostly being CRPGs. Into the flavor text, the math, the battlemat and the miniatures; the slow combat and the occasional rules-figuring-out. But definitely the group seems to vibe and have no trouble getting "into it."

Started at first level. Slowly but surely building the world around them (you know, goblin bands in the woods leads to the goblin camp leads to the wolf riders leads to the gnolls and their shaman leads to the creepy illusionist, and so on.) Mostly winging it but always hinting at the bigger things going on in the background - a sinister force called "the Iron Ring" controlling things, MW weapons being forged out of a hidden orcish fort, and so on.. Things are going really well.


Pretty sure where I wanna take things - I'm leading up to the Forge of Fury which I think makes for a really wonderful first real dungeon experience. Just big and creepy enough to make the players gulp a little at going in, and I'm so excited about the first real big bad monster at the end (I don't wanna give it away, but I'm sure most of you know.) Talk about some potential for drama and climactic moments.

But what then? Where to go from there?

Well. Purchased and downloaded The Scourge of the Slavelords for a possibly good 5th to 9th level or so adventure; the S-series. Never got to actually play in any of the old classics myself, but definitely heard enough about them, so I've been reading them and mining for inspiration. I was a little bit worried that it would be non-sensical, confusing, like a lot of the older modules, you know, with seemingly random monsters in random rooms. I was really kind of surprised and bothered at both Castle Caldwell and the original Keep on the Borderlands... Though I totally see the nostalgia and classic feel, I hate the feeling of a lack of dungeon ecology: kobolds in the first cave, orcs in the next, then the gnolls and so on - albeit in a way that's not so different from what I've been running the players through, so I'm kind of eating my words here , but anyway, back to the SlaveLords, which I had heard kind of had a reputation as being a great set of modules but considerably heavy-handed.

-- Spoiler Alert --

So, like, wow. What an incredibly awesome set of adventures. We've got towns raided, sinister pirate ports, slave galleys, hidden fortresses, dungeons, erupting volcanoes. Sequence after sequence of just epic, exciting moments. I especially love it when the PCs have been captured and brought aboard the pirate ship The ghoul, and the slave captain takes the magic items they can't use and drops them one by one into the ocean, right in front of the PCs.. Holy smokes what a moment at the table that would be.

-- End spoilers --

Okay, yeah, so it is a little heavy-handed, the PCs are always getting captured by mean little no-saving-throw tricks by the DM like sleeping gas or force-field cubes or whatever. That does kinda suck. But. It got me thinking.

All the best games I've run, the real triumphs of DMing, they kind of involve a certain level of heavy-handedness. Not total in-the-players-face no choice in the matter situations, I would never do that, "This is what happens and you have no choice in the matter..."
But as a DM, I always find myself imagining all these cool little moments. Like thinking to myself, "Okay, I've got to figure out how to get the PCs fighting the troglodytes over these acid pits." or, "Okay, I'm going to have the goblin army just wash into the valley like a flood of ants." or "Oh man these guys are going to be pissed off when they wake up in a slave galley..."

Does anyone else find themselves working this way? I mean, it's not like I've worked out a major storyline that I worship and refuse to deviate from, I just work out all these magic little moments, and given the opportunity, POW, the PCs are right where I want 'em. I guess it's not total heavy-handedness but it's definitely not free-form go where you will kinda game. In my experience it's always made for the most fun, where you get those moments - you know - those gaming moments where everyone looks at each other and are just like, "wow."

I wanna hear some stories, kids.. Share and enjoy!

 

[kiznit]

A confusing question...?

So I guess I haven't really made it clear what I'm asking here...

How do you DM?

1) prepare the adventure site-based or time-based: with maps, dungeon rooms, monsters and NPCs all statted out, events "pre-programmed" in and then just let the PCs wander where they will?

2) prepare "moments" of the adventure: where a battle scene and monsters are mapped and statted out to be sprung on the PCs when circumstances warrant it?

I'm not so much asking whether you prefer one "style" over another (since I figure we all probably work some combination of the two) but I'm much more curious as to which has worked better for you with specific examples.

 

[fafhrd]

My rules: Prep as much as you can do away with without feeling bummed. Prepare to be surprised by the players.

 

[nopantsyet]

My preparation is driven by the "moments." I rough out maps and NPCs and I create plot arcs, but it's the significant encounters that I really focus on. I often use site- and time-based elements as parts of the adventures, but they are never the primary focus, as in something like Temple of Elemental Evil.

My campaign recently had a very significant session that illustrates how I work. To set it up, the party knew there was a cult operating in the city, and they had reason to believe there was going to be a particularly nasty (i.e. destroying the city) ritual on a Midsummer's night. Midsummer's also happens to be when city elections (renaissance republic) take place. This was an especially significant election night because a new doge would be elected; the party suspected the favored candidate to be involved in leading this cult. The party wanted to disrupt both.

One of the PCs is a teenage courier. He was previously tapped by the "League of Runners," the city's couriers' guild, to take their entrance exam. That exam being to act as an official runner in the elections. The elections are a complicated series of rallies, caucuses, delegation votes and ratification votes, so this is a challenging task. Most of the day is spent running, quickly sharing information at assigned locations the running to the next. This was the metronome of the session.

The session began the morning of that day. The party was split into three groups: the runner, one PC on the catering staff for the suspect candidate's presumptive victory party, and the rest intent on disrupting the cult's ritual outside the city. The morning moved pretty slow, but as the day progressed, more and more was happening in shorter periods of time. It was very frantic by the end (as was my intention), and I was switching between the groups at a fast pace, giving them little time to think out their actions in some cases.

The runner did his part to disrupt the election, but his sphere of influence was limited, and the code of conduct of the runners gave him need for subtlety. The caterer managed to confront the candidate, who quickly decided the caterer knew too much and needed to be dispatched. The party learned the cult had launched an exodus, and arrived at the ritual site to find two men. One completed a spell as they arrived, sending a burst of magical energy from his person and across the landscape around them then disappearing from site.

There were certain events that were fixed. The runner could never possibly affect the outcome of an election in a city of almost 200,000. Somebody had plans of their own to take out the crooked politician who, under clearly-magical circumstances, fell dead as he was preparing to stick the caterer with a particularly nasty-looking blade. But both threads provided great roleplaying opportunities, and created a very exciting backdrop as the other party members moved against the cult.

I had a number of important moments planned, and those most events were triggered by character action, though a few were time-based. (But space contrains me from going into the part about the eclipse and the comet and the strange red light in the sky...) But what I've found is that it's the "payoff moments" that really make the game. When all three plot threads simultaneously climaxed, there was not only a tremendous amount of excitement, but also the convergances revealed some frightening information that the PCs were able to realize in a cinematic fashion as a result of constraining certain events. That information has led the campaign in a completely different direction than the players anticipated, and increased the scope of the plots enough to increase the sense of danger and emergency.

I think the predeteremined events and the site- and time-driven elements enhanced the whole experience specifically because they were not the primary focus.

 

[Squire James]

Given how the Slave Lords adventures go in general, it gets a little past "slightly" on the heavy-handed scale. The players need to have an extraordinary amount of trust that the DM will be fair, or this sort of thing can be a group-ender. If you have players who can't endure long-term adversity, don't try to run it!

Then again, perhaps the best time to run it is before the players become jaded powergamers...

 

[Kormydigar]

Okay, so had a bitchin' game session this evening. This might be a little long to get to the point, so please bear with me. Check this out.

Got a batch of five relative newbies (well four and one old-school campaigner), all pretty much really into it so far despite previous gaming experience mostly being CRPGs. Into the flavor text, the math, the battlemat and the miniatures; the slow combat and the occasional rules-figuring-out. But definitely the group seems to vibe and have no trouble getting "into it."

Started at first level. Slowly but surely building the world around them (you know, goblin bands in the woods leads to the goblin camp leads to the wolf riders leads to the gnolls and their shaman leads to the creepy illusionist, and so on.) Mostly winging it but always hinting at the bigger things going on in the background - a sinister force called "the Iron Ring" controlling things, MW weapons being forged out of a hidden orcish fort, and so on.. Things are going really well.


Pretty sure where I wanna take things - I'm leading up to the Forge of Fury which I think makes for a really wonderful first real dungeon experience. Just big and creepy enough to make the players gulp a little at going in, and I'm so excited about the first real big bad monster at the end (I don't wanna give it away, but I'm sure most of you know.) Talk about some potential for drama and climactic moments.

But what then? Where to go from there?

Well. Purchased and downloaded The Scourge of the Slavelords for a possibly good 5th to 9th level or so adventure; the S-series. Never got to actually play in any of the old classics myself, but definitely heard enough about them, so I've been reading them and mining for inspiration. I was a little bit worried that it would be non-sensical, confusing, like a lot of the older modules, you know, with seemingly random monsters in random rooms. I was really kind of surprised and bothered at both Castle Caldwell and the original Keep on the Borderlands... Though I totally see the nostalgia and classic feel, I hate the feeling of a lack of dungeon ecology: kobolds in the first cave, orcs in the next, then the gnolls and so on - albeit in a way that's not so different from what I've been running the players through, so I'm kind of eating my words here , but anyway, back to the SlaveLords, which I had heard kind of had a reputation as being a great set of modules but considerably heavy-handed.

-- Spoiler Alert --

So, like, wow. What an incredibly awesome set of adventures. We've got towns raided, sinister pirate ports, slave galleys, hidden fortresses, dungeons, erupting volcanoes. Sequence after sequence of just epic, exciting moments. I especially love it when the PCs have been captured and brought aboard the pirate ship The ghoul, and the slave captain takes the magic items they can't use and drops them one by one into the ocean, right in front of the PCs.. Holy smokes what a moment at the table that would be.

-- End spoilers --

Okay, yeah, so it is a little heavy-handed, the PCs are always getting captured by mean little no-saving-throw tricks by the DM like sleeping gas or force-field cubes or whatever. That does kinda suck. But. It got me thinking.

All the best games I've run, the real triumphs of DMing, they kind of involve a certain level of heavy-handedness. Not total in-the-players-face no choice in the matter situations, I would never do that, "This is what happens and you have no choice in the matter..."
But as a DM, I always find myself imagining all these cool little moments. Like thinking to myself, "Okay, I've got to figure out how to get the PCs fighting the troglodytes over these acid pits." or, "Okay, I'm going to have the goblin army just wash into the valley like a flood of ants." or "Oh man these guys are going to be pissed off when they wake up in a slave galley..."

Does anyone else find themselves working this way? I mean, it's not like I've worked out a major storyline that I worship and refuse to deviate from, I just work out all these magic little moments, and given the opportunity, POW, the PCs are right where I want 'em. I guess it's not total heavy-handedness but it's definitely not free-form go where you will kinda game. In my experience it's always made for the most fun, where you get those moments - you know - those gaming moments where everyone looks at each other and are just like, "wow."

I wanna hear some stories, kids.. Share and enjoy!

I have nearly finished the events of Scourge of the Slavelords in my own current campaign. The adventure is a little on the heavy handed side but my players have enjoyed it. The capture scene which was to have ended up enslaving the pc's did not work. I beefed up the capturing party to make escape more difficult but the resourceful players fought through the trap. I run my encounters honestly, no pulling of punches, and no cheating to make sure the capture works either. That part of the story was altered, but just the fact that the slavelords tried to capture the characters was enough to prompt them to finish the adventure. A word of advice when running this adventure is in order. The adventure was originally designed as four separate adventures for character levels 4-7. With all the added material that the "Scourge" package includes (very cool tie -in material by the way) the party is WAY beyond that power level far before the conclusion. My group of pc's was beyond this power level before the Slavers Stockade portion of the adventure using standard CR xp awards for encounters in the adventure. The result was that the group was too strong for the remainder of the adventure to remain a challenge without some serious rescaling of most encounters. This is a problem when converting any mega long adventure from the 1st edition days. Back then, a group of pc's spent a lot more time adventuring at each level than they do now, so you could start a long adventure with only a level or three gain at the end. This is just not possible anymore without a change to the standard xp system. This is still a very good adventure series, and one of my personal favorites of all time, as both a player and DM. Just be aware of these differences, and prepare for them before you start this one. In my campaign, I upped the timeline a bit and had the volcano erupt while the pc's were still travelling the Drachenscab. This means that they will meet up with the slavelords in a wilderness encampment, to end the adventure, effectively bypassing the encounters in 3 out of 4 modules. I already have a new direction for the campaign so this is not a big deal.

 

[Emperor Valerian]

I find myself DMing something like that. Often I think ahead of time a cool 'moment' to involve the players, and try to build things up to that point. How do I go about it? Looking things up, and improvisation.

For example, one session I had in mind getting a PC rogue/bard to fight one on one a rogue/assassin nemesis of his that had been harassing the party for a while. The player in question hadn't had many 'dramatic moments' for his character, and I knew everyone would think the idea of him and his evil nemesis fighting mano a mano with rapiers would be cool. However, the players are good players, and IC they would be wily, and I knew they would try and find some way to intervene.

I thought about it, and it led to more dramatics... the rogue/assassin's son (whom another party member has a beef with) shows up as well. But the party is six strong... how to keep people from pile-driving?

Solution: Bring in the BBEG too. Have her incapacitate the party with some of her nasty spells (giving the party an idea of what they are up against), as well as preparing the way for the dramatic moment.

End result: The party finds themselves incapacitated by the BBEG (epic level spellcaster), who leaves the party to the machinations of this assassin and her son... as well as kidnapping one of the party NPCs. Leaves the rogue in question free to move, so the assassin can toy with him.

In the end, the party fighter, without a weapon, fought the son (who had a katana) and took him down, while the bard/rogue outdueled the assassin in a straight up rapier battle. The party had some satisfaction: two of their main enemies are down. But there's also a major plot-hook... one of their friends has been kidnapped, and they need to rescue him. Three major dramatic moments spun up because of one I imagined. Roll with the punches... it can lead to great fun.

 

[Ravilah]

I (think I) combine a slightly heavy hand with good improvisation skills. I love what I call those "cinematic" moments: the heroic leap from the exploding mountain, or the sudden arrival of the celestial cavalry at the most desperate hour. I will, admittedly, maneuver events so that the cinematic moments occur. However, players often have this nasty habit of pulling something out of their hats that you don't expect. Sometimes, I like what they have done so much, that I completely alter my original plans to follow up on the new direction the PC s have taken. Or even better! More than once a player has suspected or hypothosized something about an NPC or situation that is way off of what I have planned. But I like the idea that they've come up with so much that I change everything so that their guess is right!

For example, some 12th level PCs were in the midst of a rather large scale quest to locate three lost, prophesied hereos; but they suddenly decided to visit an old high-priest friend in order to get some free healing and help. Well, the high priest had passed away, and the new high priest is a jerk. Well, my players mistrust the new guy so much that one of them says, "I don't want him to touch us; he'll probably curse us or dominate us or something." Well, I hadn't intended for the priest to do much more than be offensively rude (I had, after all, had to make him up on the spot). But the idea of him doing more was too delicious to pass up, so I had him geas the whole group into doing a whole side quest. The Quest (though made up on the fly) ended up escalating into a major, major story event. They ended up tearing down a despotic Caliph, collapsing the heirarchy of nobles, and reinstituting a new government. So now a major world leader owes them his throne. All because I decided to spontaneously follow up a player's suspicious guess.

I may manuever my players into some things, but just as often I just ride the wave of improvisation.

 

[schnee]

Heavy-handedness can be fine every once in a while, but it can seriously suck if done too often. In one campaign I just finished it seemed we were always either imprisoned, under control of some agency, or forced into situations beyond our control. We never really had the chance to pursue our own agenda for any length of time. It's hard to think 'yeah, these guys have come into their own' when they're always someone else's errand-runners.