Incense of Meditation

[Infiniti2000]

You are not preparing your spells during the 8 hours, that is merely the activation time for the effect that the item gives you when you prepare your spells.

Sure you are preparing your spells during those 8 hours. That what it means when it says, 'prepared in this way.' What else could it mean? The item not only specifies, but alters how you prepare your spells. You don't pray for an hour, you pray and meditate for 8 hours with the incense. If you only have to pray normally, then there are two problems. Number 1 is that it is no longer 'in this way' as it would be 'in your normal way' or some such language. Number 2, and even more importantly, you've missed your opportunity to prepare spells. Since you're willfully neglecting the time to prepare your spells, you don't get any at all*. While we're at, praying/meditating for 8 hours completely negates the possibility of preparing arcane spells (as a wizard). Note that you "must have at least 1 hour of uninterrupted rest immediately prior to preparing [your] spells."

* Note that this part is subject to interpretation and this is mine. If you're tied up or something, I'd let you pray 8 hours later (or whatever), but if you purposefully miss your time slot by such a long time, you can't get spells until 24 hours later.

 

[Scion]

Sure you are preparing your spells during those 8 hours.

Nah. It says you pray and meditate with the incense and then you prepare your spells in a special way.

It could be read the other way of course, but I think it is stretching what it is saying a little far.

Also, since you are busy with the meditating then the next possible time you have to get your spells is, generally, right after you finish. So you had better do it then.

No different than if you were casting a spell with a very long casting time. Same thing.

 

[Infiniti2000]

You do agree, though, that you cannot prepare arcane spells after the meditation? So, doesn't that render this whole discussion moot?

 

[Scion]

You do agree, though, that you cannot prepare arcane spells after the meditation? So, doesn't that render this whole discussion moot?

No reason you couldnt prepare arcane spells after the 8 hour meditation period, as long as you were able to activate the incense in the first place.

8 hours of meditation then prepare and all prepared spells are maximized.

 

[Infiniti2000]

No reason you couldnt prepare arcane spells after the 8 hour meditation period, as long as you were able to activate the incense in the first place.

8 hours of meditation then prepare and all prepared spells are maximized.

But, as I quoted above, to prepare arcane spells you "must have at least 1 hour of uninterrupted rest immediately prior to preparing [your] spells." You can't pray/meditate with the incense immediately prior to preparing arcane spells and you can't rest for an hour after using the incense, ergo you can't use the incense to prepare arcane spells.

 

[Scion]

"must have at least 1 hour of uninterrupted rest immediately prior to preparing [your] spells."

you dont think that meditation works as rest? It is 'used' as rest in my meditation class.

Also, he could even be sitting watch instead, so long as he wasnt doing anything strenuous like casting spells.

I see nothing wrong with allowing 'meditating' to be 'restful' or at least 'nonstrenuous'.

Why would sitting there relaxing with some nice incense be 'nonrestful'?

 

[Infiniti2000]

You're activating a magic item. That's non-restful almost by definition. Besides, we're not just talking about meditation, we're talking about prayer/meditation and the transfer/receiving of divine power from the heavens, or the hells as the case may be.

I in fact say that a cleric/wizard must prepare his arcane spells first. Preparing clerical spells does not constitute the restful state needed for arcane study. I could be persuaded from this, but not from the interpretation that the 8 hours includes the time to pray for divine spells; so we are at an impasse.

 

[Scion]

Ok, now prove all of that.

Lighting a candle and breathing is stressful/nonrestful in some way. Ok, prove it.

Praying is stressful/nonrestful. Ok, prove it.

At this point it really feels like you are grasping for straws with the whole restful thing. If you want to read it in such a way that you get your spells at the same time as the 8 hours (which I still feel is stretching the wording quite a bit) then go ahead.

Really, it seems more like an ambient effect anyway. 'light and stay around it somewhere and meditate'. Sounds pretty relaxing to me.

 

[Shellman]

I have to agree with the thinking that this item only works for divine casters and only effects his divine spells not arcane spells.

This is a very powerful item and I would agree that its use should be limited by the DM. Allowing an arcane caster to use the block just makes this item too nasty to allow at all.

 

[Veril]

you dont think that meditation works as rest? It is 'used' as rest in my meditation class.?

Also, he could even be sitting watch instead, so long as he wasnt doing anything strenuous like casting spells.

I see nothing wrong with allowing 'meditating' to be 'restful' or at least 'nonstrenuous'.

Why would sitting there relaxing with some nice incense be 'nonrestful'?

This is D&D not your meditation class. Rest is rest. Most of what you described is not restfull.

From the PHB: To rest her mind she must first sleep for 8 hours. The wizard does not have to slumber for ever minute of that time but she must refrain from movement, combat, spellcasting, skill use, conversation or any other fairly demanding physical or mental task during the rest period.

The text for rest clearly implies that sleep is the major component of the rest.

Sitting watch. This assumes that you are either listening or looking, that is skill use, making listen checks or making spot checks. Clearly you cannot be sitting watch while resting. If you are then my bad guys get to sneak up on you and get the first attack, with surprise, and you don't get s spot/listen attempt to notice them.

The incense says that you are "praying and meditating" not just meditating in the 8 hours. Prayer is communicating with your diety i.e. that is a (one sided) conversation. Prayer is a demanding mental task - the recitation of stock phrases without any meaning to you is not prayer, that's just nonesense words.

I think it's clear that using the incense is not rest.