Independant Computer Dealers

[DonTadow]

10 years ago, I started building computers off of strong relationships with my local computer dealers. However, it seems in the last year I've been getting the shaft as big dealers prices have come down. Recently I've had a motherboard destroyed by an independant dealer, sold bad RAM by another and had a third try to tell me that there's no real difference between pentium D and core2duo (because he didn't have the latter in stock). I've noticed that hte prices the discounts they give even when haggling and at shows are now no better than a good non-rebate sale at a compusa or best buy.

Is it time to give up on the non-online independant computer store.

 

[Rl'Halsinor]

Tough question but if this has been the trend for you then I think you need to go with your red flags. I cannot understand how small independent companies think they can get away with such action and still remain in business.

 

[XCorvis]

Some people have terrible luck with independent places. My uncle is one of those. He always manages to find the WORST techs around. Last time he bought a hard drive and had it installed, the guy split the 20 GB drive into ten 2 GB partitions. He said it was a more efficient use of space. While this is technically true (due to block size), it's also idiotic to have 10 partitions. I told him to just come to me next time.

Bad RAM happens - that's a manufacturer problem, not the retailer's fault (unless there's more to it). As long as they have a reasonable policy, don't hold it against them. Did the first replace your motherboard, at least?

Get your computer advice online. Tomshardware.com, andandtech.com, ArsTechnica.com, Hardocp.com are all awesome places.

I buy all my parts online. It's cheaper. Newegg.com will almost always beat your local retailers price before shipping, and usually after. I can't suggest anything for repair work because I do my own, except to say that if you can find a friend who is good then pay him to do it.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I had local independent guys try to give me the shaft and since then its all internet, newegg mostly, for me. Shop sold me bad memory, I took it back and they gave me the same stick back in a new anti-static bag! I took it back after it failed too and they told me to bring my PC in, which I did. They took it back and after a week they called me and I wend there and they told me they couldn't find the problem and I should buy a new hard drive and see if that fixed the problem. I went over to the PC and said, "look reboot this with the memory testing on and it fails" so I did that and rebooted it and the one huge guy with the grease stained shirt says "you want to bench this yourself?" I was about to slap him but the pizza grease would have flown everywhere. So I grabbed my machine, told them to give me a working stick of RAM, and left. Like I said, all internet from there on out. I'm sure there are still good local dealers, but I can't see how they can compete with Newegg based on prices.

 

[reanjr]

The problem is that as computer use becomes more prevalent, the bar for being a "tech" is drastically lowered.

(this is only half-comedic)

Signs that your computer "tech" might be an idiot:

1. He's under the age of 20 - it is likely that this is simply your average gen-Y computer user who knows more than 95% of the people from the previous generation, but not enough to do much more than add content to their MySpace.

2. Dresses in impecable business casual attire - most likely attended (or is attending) university to learn about computers. Real techs wear jeans and have facial hair (even the female ones).

3. Is not interacting with a computer in any way as you approach - computer techs have a strong urge to fiddle with things, whether they be software or hardware. If yours is disinterested in computers and isn't using one for most of their waking life, she is probably not a good choice

4. Uses the mouse to a fault when interacting with a computer - anyone who commonly uses computers knows that keyboard navigation is waaaaay quicker and gives up on the mouse. People who use a mouse to navigate are noobs.

Ways to test your "tech":

1. Ask them what they run at home. If they say Windows, be wary. Even those techs who work with Windows on a daily basis will often run Linux or Mac OS X at least part of the time.

2. Bring up video games. If the tech goes into overdrive discussing the latest video games and (especially) video cards, they are probably gaming enthusiasts and not techs. The decisions they will make for your machine are coming from a perspective so skewed from daily computer use it will cloud their judgement.

3. Tell them you've been having problems with spyware. If they offer to clean it up and install an anti-malware app (and this is not what you came for), leave. If they suggest and anti-malware app, continue discussion. If they suggest you change browsers, go on to your real problem. If they offer advice on how to to avoid spyware by not downloading certain apps and being careful, put their number in cell phone.

4. Tell her you're having a boot problem but that you run Linux, so are unsure if she can help. If she stares at you blankly, give up immediately and start looking in the Yellow Pages. If she begins looking really worried, you'll have to keep probing. If she confidently tells you that she might not be able to diagnose the problem, but she can at least test for certain things, she is a decent tech. If she indicates that fixing any Linux boot problems should be no problem, ask her if she is single and send her my email address ( reanjr ** reanjr ** org ).

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

Is it time to give up on the non-online independant computer store.

Computers have changed. It seems silly to me to now assemble computers for profit as an independant brick-and-mortar operation. The only reason to assemble your own is for the hell of it. Literally hell, as in, "Who NEEDS these headaches when I can buy fully-assembled, off-the-shelf systems at Best Buy for $300?" I started telling myself 6 years ago that I wasn't going to build another system for myself. A couple months ago I finally listened. Unless you have money falling out your posterior and an obsession for the bleeding edge there's no reason whatsoever not to just go to the nearest big-box store and take one off the shelf. I don't even recommend bothering with the shipping delay and costs by ordering online. Few people have a real need for custom-made computers. Worst case: buy a box with the processor you want and add a better video card for gaming.

YMMV

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

Bear with me a minute here...

Ways to test your "tech":

1. Ask them what they run at home. If they say Windows, be wary. Even those techs who work with Windows on a daily basis will often run Linux or Mac OS X at least part of the time.

Uh. Okay. I'm not sure how running Linux at home makes them a more knowledgable tech about dealing with Windows. I'm REALLY unclear how being a dedicated Mac user at home qualifies them for Windows answers. I assume that merely running an OS that is UNcommon for home use at home implies that you know more in general about computers, but 90% of the worlds computers STILL run on some flavor of Windows so using that at home is HARDLY anything to be wary of.

2. Bring up video games. If the tech goes into overdrive discussing the latest video games and (especially) video cards, they are probably gaming enthusiasts and not techs. The decisions they will make for your machine are coming from a perspective so skewed from daily computer use it will cloud their judgement.

Having technical knowledge and being a gaming enthusiast are not mutually exclusive.

3. Tell them you've been having problems with spyware. If they offer to clean it up and install an anti-malware app (and this is not what you came for), leave. If they suggest and anti-malware app, continue discussion.

Okay, if they tell you to get anti-malware yourself they might be okay, but if they offer to do it for you at a charge they're suspect? While it may be that's not what you came for it's what you're ASKING about at the moment, no? Just to rephrase: If I say, "I'm having trouble with spyware," and he responds with, "Stop using IE and downloading all that crap... anything else I can help you with?" then he's my new rabbi, but offering to simply apply the fix for a fee when you've just stated that your problem is malware, that's bad. Got it.

4. Tell her you're having a boot problem but that you run Linux, so are unsure if she can help. If she stares at you blankly, give up immediately and start looking in the Yellow Pages. If she begins looking really worried, you'll have to keep probing. If she confidently tells you that she might not be able to diagnose the problem, but she can at least test for certain things, she is a decent tech. If she indicates that fixing any Linux boot problems should be no problem, ask her if she is single and send her my email address ( reanjr ** reanjr ** org ).

Ah, and failure to know anything about Linux makes them suspect for other purposes as well. Got it.

Seriously, if you go to a tech and say, "My computer has problems - could it be malware?" and all he does is offer to install anti-malware and run it for you then you STILL have to know enough to know that you DON'T know if that will fix your problem even if he says it will. Techs are going to come at all levels of competence (or incompetence), just as users will, but, "Be wary if he doesn't use Linux or Mac OS X at home?" That is elitist garbage.

Perhaps the best way to find a good tech is to simply know enough about your computer to know if the person you're talking to knows LESS about computers than you do; ask for recommendations from people you know who have had to seek technical help; expect to pay for software and services that you can't provide for yourself; judge his worth by his ability to address your problems and concerns swiftly, courteously, and reliably, and be willing to play what he's worth to you.

 

[reanjr]

Bear with me a minute here...
Uh. Okay. I'm not sure how running Linux at home makes them a more knowledgable tech about dealing with Windows.

By "be wary" I wasn't intending to imply they are a bad tech, just that they need further investigation. i was a bit more explicit with this in later comments. If a tech runs Linux at home, you can be fairly assured that they know what they are doing on Windows exactly BECAUSE of the ubiquity of it. Anyone who learns Linux picks up Windows along the way.

Having technical knowledge and being a gaming enthusiast are not mutually exclusive.

That's also not what I said. Just that gaming enthusiasts very often are tech savvy but make decisions for your machine as if it were a gaming rig. It's their background. And lets face it there are way more gaming enthusiasts who can tell you exactly how to tweak out the last bit of performance out of your system than there are techs who can actually help you as a common user (if you are not a common user, you wouldn't be taking you computer in).

Okay, if they tell you to get anti-malware yourself they might be okay, but if they offer to do it for you at a charge they're suspect? While it may be that's not what you came for it's what you're ASKING about at the moment, no? Just to rephrase: If I say, "I'm having trouble with spyware," and he responds with, "Stop using IE and downloading all that crap... anything else I can help you with?" then he's my new rabbi, but offering to simply apply the fix for a fee when you've just stated that your problem is malware, that's bad. Got it.

What I am saying is if you are there to get your sound card upgraded and mention a spyware problem, the tech should educate you instead of ask you for money. It takes approximately 20 seconds while you are opening their box to tell them "You may want to try out anti-malware software from Macafee or Symantec. There are also plenty of free packages available on the internet such as AdAware. If you need help with any of those, we can set them up for you." If they respond with "What you need is Norton System Works which we have right here. I can install it while I'm looking at your machine for $60," then they are a saleperson, not a tech. And you can find much better tech support, hence the suggestion to leave and find someone else.

Ah, and failure to know anything about Linux makes them suspect for other purposes as well. Got it.

See, right there you have proven you are not technically proficient with computers. The question, of course, has nothing to do with Linux. There are many reasons for boot failures that can occur before the OS is even looked at. If the "tech" doesn't know this, then they are incompetent. This is a very effective question to ask about to determine if the person behind the counter has even half a clue as to how to perform their job.

Seriously, if you go to a tech and say, "My computer has problems - could it be malware?" and all he does is offer to install anti-malware and run it for you then you STILL have to know enough to know that you DON'T know if that will fix your problem even if he says it will. Techs are going to come at all levels of competence (or incompetence), just as users will, but, "Be wary if he doesn't use Linux or Mac OS X at home?" That is elitist garbage.

Like I said, you are misinterpreting my "be wary" comment. That's my fault, though, I really wasn't clear.

Perhaps the best way to find a good tech is to simply know enough about your computer to know if the person you're talking to knows LESS about computers than you do; ask for recommendations from people you know who have had to seek technical help; expect to pay for software and services that you can't provide for yourself; judge his worth by his ability to address your problems and concerns swiftly, courteously, and reliably, and be willing to play what he's worth to you.

Well all this is true, of course. It applies to any kind of professional service industry, I would think. What I was relating was little tests for those who do NOT know enough to know if THEY know.

Also, the post was supposed to be cheeky - I think you took it way to seriously. I figured the thread would attract people like me who have worked as techs and can find the humor in the statements.

 

[reanjr]

Oh, for reference, I run Windows at home, Linux on my server and for work, and I used to work for a company that developed Mac software, but I never touched one except to browse the internet on a coworker's machine. I do not consider myself a Linux expert by any means, which is why I can respect those who have the patience and know-how to run it full time, never touching Windows. Those people know and love computers and are exactly the types of people who you want working on your computer.

Personally, Windows frustrates me for how polished they make most things, but how they make some things virtually impossible; Linux frustrates me for making everything so damn complicated and user-aggresive; OS X frustrates me because it's too expensive for me and doesn't have big enough market share to attract developers. Oh and the one-button mouse thing. I can't stand useing a one-button mouse. Probably makes phone support easier though...

I should also point out that OS X is basically UNIX beneath its shiny interface, which is why I lump it in with Linux for techs as there are two major groups of Mac users: those who migrated from Linux and those who would buy a jar of Steve Jobs saliva if it was marketed in a white plastic shell with clear lacquer over it. These latter people rarely become techs.

Most of these little thoughts of mine come from working as a tech and seeing how other techs either rape their customer's wallets for all they are worth or leave a customer feeling stupid and not any better off than when they came in in the long run. Customers always end up leaving the store completely befuddled or feeling somewhat dirty. And the salespeople masquerading as techs. That's what got me to quit one of my jobs. I am not a service pusher. If someone came up and asked a question that I could answer while I was working on someone else's machine, I would just answer them, not try to push costs on them. We used to charge $40 (I think that was the number, might have been $60) to run msconfig, click on a tab, uncheck all the boxes, run a program available for free over the internet that required no real human input, and restart the machine. I just told the customer how to do it themselves and explained why it worked. Took less of my time and the customer was better off for it.

 

[DonTadow]

Computers have changed. It seems silly to me to now assemble computers for profit as an independant brick-and-mortar operation. The only reason to assemble your own is for the hell of it. Literally hell, as in, "Who NEEDS these headaches when I can buy fully-assembled, off-the-shelf systems at Best Buy for $300?" I started telling myself 6 years ago that I wasn't going to build another system for myself. A couple months ago I finally listened. Unless you have money falling out your posterior and an obsession for the bleeding edge there's no reason whatsoever not to just go to the nearest big-box store and take one off the shelf. I don't even recommend bothering with the shipping delay and costs by ordering online. Few people have a real need for custom-made computers. Worst case: buy a box with the processor you want and add a better video card for gaming.

YMMV

There are still some really good positives to building your own system. \

A. you get better more quality parts. I've done work for e-machine and studying the other manufactures, they skim on parts wherever they can.

B. If you're aiming to remake the same machine as a vendors low end machine, you can probably do it quicker.

C. If you're aiming at doing something other than looking at spreadsheets, you are better off building your own machine as you can purchase quality parts from the start.

About a month ago I was set on buy8ing a media machine from HP despite that I long swore I'd never buy a factory. One of my fellow techs at work convicnced me to at least research it. For waht HP was charging 1200 for, I built for 700 with a better cpu and graphics card. Not to mention a better HTPC case.