Infernal pacts - appropriate for player characters?

[Wolfspider]

If D20 Modern had Tiefling Warlocks...

He is the unholy progeny of a witch and the devil Sheol. He was summoned to earth by Nazis bent on destroying the world. He was raised by a benevolent secret organization that gives him missions to combat supernatural evil. He is exceptionally strong and resilient (high Str and Con scores). He has other superhuman abilities that "stem from his demonic nature". His right hand and forearm is an oversized fist of stone that hits like a sledgehammer and he carried an immense pistol made from church bells and fragments of the true cross that shoots "really big bullets" made of holy water, silver shaving, garlic and other stuff specifically meant to harm supernatural creatures (together, the fist, pistol and special bullets all count as his eldritch blast).

Likely, he's multiclassed with a martial class, such as Fighter or Barbarian.

He didn't make a pact with the Devil in order to receive his powers. He was born that way. His demonic nature is best represented by his race, not his class. From your description, I think that he'd be best described in game terms as being a half-fiend human paladin.

 

[Kesh]

I swear if this keeps up, I'm just going to make a copy & paste template for these discussions, so we can all cut to the chase. So many rehashed arguments here…

 

[Rechan]

I swear if this keeps up, I'm just going to make a copy & paste template for these discussions, so we can all cut to the chase. So many rehashed arguments here…

Wouldn't it just be easier to provide links to the last argument?

"Look, fellas. Anything you're going to say? Been said. Go read it here."

Wait, no. If that would work, then it would've been done with Alignment threads long, long ago.

 

[WayneLigon]

Honestly, I'm thinking they won't even be scary good guys. They'll be Naruto. Friendly little dude powered by a demon inside.

The Chinese and Japanese sometimes mean something very different when they use the word 'demon'; they're not all nessesarily evil. Wheras in the West, that's pretty much the default position unless you're going for revisionist fantasy.

 

[Nifft]

The Chinese and Japanese sometimes mean something very different when they use the word 'demon'; they're not all nessesarily evil. Wheras in the West, that's pretty much the default position unless you're going for revisionist fantasy.

Interestingly, if you go back far enough to where Genius and Daemon are related, the concept is more similar to its Eastern cousin. (Not identical, for sure, but more similar.)

Cheers, -- N

 

[Pbartender]

He didn't make a pact with the Devil in order to receive his powers. He was born that way. His demonic nature is best represented by his race, not his class. From your description, I think that he'd be best described in game terms as being a half-fiend human paladin.

Quibble.

As with any concept, he could be emulated by a variety of race and class combinations. I chose Tiefling Warlock, because it was pertinent to the discussion.

To put a variation of it into more unambiguous D&D terms...

Lawful Good Tiefling Warlock:
The character's mother was a witch who made a pact with a devil or demon. A part of the pact, the resulting child was to be the demon's. The mother renegged on the deal and sent the child into hiding. Infuriated, the demon killed the mother, and the child inherited the unfulfilled pact from his mother. Now a young adult, the child is realizing the full potential of his birthright and learning the true nature of his parents. Brought up by just and righteous folk, he has made a decision... If he must sacrifice living souls to his demonic father in order to gain the full power that will be required to survive his father's eventual and inevitable wrath, then let it be the souls of the wicked.

 

[Dr. Prunesquallor]

The Chinese and Japanese sometimes mean something very different when they use the word 'demon'; they're not all nessesarily evil.

This is certainly true as a general rule. In the instant case, however, the 'demon' is quite evil and the 'warlock' is practically a paladin.

I agree there could be extra evil 'weight' (above and beyond any actions by the designated creature) for the terms demon and devil within the Western tradition. It may be too much Moorcock and Howard, but I don't feel that weight when I consider demons and devils in D&D (anymore than I feel an extra weight of reverence for the gods of D&D) and therefore I find myself unconcerned about the pacts, even with regard to player characters.

OT, (mea maxima culpa) but could you briefly define or give a representative title for revisionist fantasy. Would Hellboy be a good example?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Wouldn't it just be easier to provide links to the last argument?

"Look, fellas. Anything you're going to say? Been said. Go read it here."

Wait, no. If that would work, then it would've been done with Alignment threads long, long ago.

I have seen this done before (in the "Why is it important thread...".) It doesn't work. No one follows the links. There are only three possible actions
1) Find other arguments / examples and add them.
2) Rehash old arguments.
3) Retreat from the discussion.

3) is the hardest (because you are to invested in the topic), 1) is usually not as rewarding as you'd hope. 2) becomes very painful.

 

[vagabundo]

As long as they are balanced from a mechanical point of view and no RP negatives to play out with the pacts, I will be happy and will put them in my game.

 

[Kesh]

Wouldn't it just be easier to provide links to the last argument?

No, because a) sometimes the arguments get convoluted and lost in the overall arguing and b) no one reads the linked discussions anyway.