Influencing NPC Attitudes

[Mokona]

The Diplomacy check DC is 50 to achieve an attitude shift from Hostile to Helpful.

The level 1 Charm Person spell automatically changes an NPC's attitude to Friendly if the target fails their save (even, I think, if they were Hostile before).

The DC is only 20 to achieve an attitude shift from Friendly to Helpful.

From a purely mechanical standpoint, can you use a Diplomacy check to change a charmed person's attitude from Friendly to Helpful?

Charm Person only last one hour per caster level. How long does an attitude due to a Diplomacy check last?

If you got an easier DC on your Diplomacy check to make an initially Hostile NPC into a Helpful one by charming them first what happens when the charm wears off? Are they still Helpful (you did use a Diplomacy check after all)?

Does it matter if they do or don't notice that they were ever charmed?

 

[Jack Simth]

The Diplomacy check DC is 50 to achieve an attitude shift from Hostile to Helpful.

The level 1 Charm Person spell automatically changes an NPC's attitude to Friendly if the target fails their save (even, I think, if they were Hostile before).

But is a temporary effect....

The DC is only 20 to achieve an attitude shift from Friendly to Helpful.

From a purely mechanical standpoint, can you use a Diplomacy check to change a charmed person's attitude from Friendly to Helpful?

Probably not. They are treated as Friendly due to the enchantment of the spell. Doesn't matter what their actual standing is. Although you can use an opposed charisma check to make them do stuff they otherwise wouldn't.

Charm Person only last one hour per caster level. How long does an attitude due to a Diplomacy check last?

Like most skills, it has no duration. How long does a sword made with Craft (Weapons and Armor) last? Until something else changes it.

If you got an easier DC on your Diplomacy check to make an initially Hostile NPC into a Helpful one by charming them first what happens when the charm wears off? Are they still Helpful (you did use a Diplomacy check after all)?

If I didn't rule that it didn't work at all, I'd say their new perspective is whatever their origninal perspective was, with a shift based on how far they were moved by your check - if they were hostile before you charmed them, and you diplomacied them from Friendly (charmed) to Helpful, they would end up Unfriendly when the charm wore off - just as if you had started with Diplomacy in the first place, for that particular combination on a DC 20 check.

Does it matter if they do or don't notice that they were ever charmed?

Nope.

 

[Mokona]

*bump*

Any comments based on the RAW?

 

[ThirdWizard]

They are treated as Friendly due to the enchantment of the spell. Doesn't matter what their actual standing is.

Interesting. So if they were Helpful and you cast charm person on them (for whatever reason) they would become Friendly. This is definately what the text reads, and I would say is RAW. So, you cannot change the attitude with Diplomacy by RAW.