Infravision

[Krieg]

Hmm, actually using our thermal imager we Security Forces have...I have tracked an individual's footprints for quite a ways....

...and therein lies the problem. For some reason "infravision" became "thermal" vision.

Being able to see using the near infrared & being able to see thermal images are NOT the same thing.

 

[Almacov]

I must agree with you Mr. Reynolds, it is ALOT of work to incorporate infravision effectively into a campaign, and it would be silly to include it as a default rule.
I'm apologetic if it came off like I was whining about it's loss in this post, but for the most part, I was just wondering when it had been removed from the rules.

Still, I do believe I'll somehow test out a 3e mechanic for it in one of my campaigns. I love extra work when it's work on my campaign world.

 

[WayneLigon]

Hmm, actually using our thermal imager we Security Forces have...I have tracked an individual's footprints for quite a ways....

I can imagine, but I doubt seriously that the organic version is anywhere near as accurate as the technological version. It's just not a normal sense for terrestrial creatures.

In fact, does anything in nature actually 'see' in the infrared? I know some snakes can sense heat sources with their 'pit' but does anything actually image in the infrared?

 

[tarchon]

I can imagine, but I doubt seriously that the organic version is anywhere near as accurate as the technological version. It's just not a normal sense for terrestrial creatures.

In fact, does anything in nature actually 'see' in the infrared? I know some snakes can sense heat sources with their 'pit' but does anything actually image in the infrared?

Some organisms probably can see images in the near infrared, but anything over about 950 nm is unlikely since water starts to become strongly absorptive past that point (making eyeballs highly useless). I couldn't name one species in particular, but there's a pretty good chance that something out there is sensitive to somewhat longer wavelengths than we are.
Arthropods typically have some near UV sensitivity, many flowers having UV markings that bees can perceive.

 

[tarchon]

I couldn't name one species in particular, but there's a pretty good chance that something out there is sensitive to somewhat longer wavelengths than we are.

Aha, butterflies, piranha, and goldfish are, according to some webpage I just looked at.

 

[tarchon]

http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/rants/infravision.html

Hmm... while I agree that infravision is physically unworkable in most cases, a lot of his arguments against it don't really hold water.

 

[jasper]

sean rant proves the point of what happen to thermal night goggles vision. At first no one thought about it but as the real life tech became more and more mundane the goobers, power players, munckins, everyone wanting it to work as SEEN ON TV or in the movies etc. which is one reason I like the new name.

 

[BOZ]

Really though, it all depends on how detailed and realistic you want the physics in your campaign to be. If you want simple infravision that’s easy to use, just say that it allows you to see living beings in the dark (except reptiles, heheh).

 

[Umbran]

Hmm... while I agree that infravision is physically unworkable in most cases, a lot of his arguments against it don't really hold water.

Care to be more specific? Which arguments do you think don't hold water?

 

[Umbran]

Really though, it all depends on how detailed and realistic you want the physics in your campaign to be. If you want simple infravision that’s easy to use, just say that it allows you to see living beings in the dark (except reptiles, heheh).

And once again, we see that whole science/misunderstanding thing getting in the way.

Reptiles are cold-blooded. That means they don't have metabolic processes to maintain their bodies at higher than the ambient tempreature around them. That does not mean their bodies are at the ambient tempreature, however, since metabolism isn't the only way to govern body tempreature.

Ever walk on the beach or a road barefoot on a sunny summer day? The surface is warmer than the air around it. Same goes for the reptile that basks in the sun - he winds up warmer than the air around him, and would thus show up on "infravision".

So, now the DM has to worry about who has been where and when, and what tempreature it'd be. That's a headache.

And, that's not thinking about other critters (fish and insects, for example) that are cold-blooded. Starting to sound less and less like infravision (see living things, except lizards) and more like "mammal and birdievision". And are aberrations warm or cold blooded? How about outsiders, or dragons, who are so magical that they may not follow reasonable rules? More headaches, more ways to become inconsistent if you don't have a perfect memory for what you've done before. Bleh.

In general - far better idea to get rid of the "infra" reference. Call the darned thing "Darkvision", and have it work however you want. The scientific reference pulls up too many questions from modern minds.