Inherently Evil Core Class

[MarauderX]

Dishonorable and evil are very different things.

Plus, "honor" defined beyond keeping one's word has to do with a bunch of rules of chivalry which generally do nothing but get more people killed.

And paladins are what? Suicidal idiots?

One thing I like about the 3.x rogue is that it is NOT inherently a thief or assassin but it can be.

DC

I guess I just disagree with you here. It's a class that is geared for everything dealing with traps, hiding, thievery, etc., just look at the class skills. It wouldn't take a leap of imagination to equate a shadow-hugging backstabber as evil.

I know that in many ways you are correct, that it doesn't HAVE to fit, but how many thieve's guilds are out to donate their cash to charity? It plays to the quality of greed, not commonly a trait of good.


[steering thread back on track]I like the assassin though... looks good. The backstab is a little powerful IMO, considering all of the other feats the class can choose from. It pretty much takes the place of the Assassin PrC along with some bonuses that makes the PrC look weak. The choice of feats is great though, and would help with creating a larger diversity of assassins than there are monks in the monk class. There are a few things I would take out to even it up to the other core classes, but other than that I like the development. [/steering thread back on track]

 

[Ysgarran]

Unholy Warrior from Green Ronin gives an evil core class built around the seven deadly sins. The tone doesn't seem to fit my current FR campaign but I plan to use it in my next campaign.

later,
Ysgarran.

 

[Piratecat]

...but who listens to that rule anyways!

We do.

I'll slide this over to House Rules!

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I guess I just disagree with you here. It's a class that is geared for everything dealing with traps, hiding, thievery, etc., just look at the class skills. It wouldn't take a leap of imagination to equate a shadow-hugging backstabber as evil.

Or as chaotic.
Be aware though, the sneaking, trap and thievery skills are not all class skills. The Rogue also gets all charisma-based abilities, which will make him also a dabbler in magic, a diplomat, a trader and/or a performer, and he gets many of the perception based skills and atlethic/acrobatic skills. He actually has the potential to be anything of it.

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Nifft]

The Rogue also gets all charisma-based abilities, which will make him also a dabbler in magic, a diplomat, a trader and/or a performer, and he gets many of the perception based skills and atlethic/acrobatic skills. He actually has the potential to be anything of it.

Yup yup. IMC, most every Diplomat has several Rogue levels. (I allow non-tracking Rangers & non-trap-disabling Rogues to substitute Skill Focus for either Track or Trapfinding, both of which can then be taken as Feats later on.)

Wouldn't the default D&D setting be better if everyone who wasn't a specific class took Rogue levels in place of Commoner levels?

-- N

PS: "What do you mean everyone in the town square evades the Fireball except our party!?"

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Hm... I was thinking that Rogues are pretty much that class. Backstab, stealthy spies, pickpockets, trap setting, etc... no honor there whatsoever. How many thieves are there with heart of gold?

I disagree, too. Rogues are neither inherently evil nor inherently chaoitic. In fact, they can have every alignment.

Stealth isn't evil or chaotic. It's tactical. Don't forget that rogues are no warriors. A scout (which would be rogue, ranger, or rogue/ranger) will want to get information on enemy movements. This doesn't make him chaotic or evil.

Then a rogue could be a "federal agent". A lawful good character that observes quietly and under cover.

Sneak Attack isn't inherently evil or unlawful, too. It's also tactical. You fight enemies in a fight to the death, you can as well be effective and hit where it hurts. There's just no sense in hacking at him randomly until he drops. One hit on the right place will take him out.

Then don't forget that class skills are a can, they aren't a must! I was very happy when they renamed the thief class into rogue, for I played several "thief" characters that actually didn't steal (not a single point put into pick pockets).



As for the evil base class: Just invert the paladin (or make the blackguard a base class.)

 

[Tonguez]

Okay a few Evil class concepts I can think of (but don't have time or inclination to write up are) which are not vaguely Paladinish are

1. Cannibal Savage: Like a Barbarian but gets stronger by eating the flesh of other humanoids, rage, fast movement, bite attack, eventually gains regeneration 5, and a frightful presence

2. Dominator: a Psychic class able to physically enter and take over the bodies of others and manipulate them all the while feeding off the victims Con

3. Diabolist - PC that summons and binds demons and devils and uses their powers but otherwise has no spellcasting ability of his own

4. Blood magi - PC that needs the blood of others to fuel his spellcasting

 

[Sollir Furryfoot]

(Note-I used Assassin of the Hell God's format as a base, things are worded badly right now, just trying to get the concept down first, tell me how things look and then i'll decide what to change and then type up more rules-bookish sounding stuff)

Name: ????? (Need help here)

Prerequisites:
Alignment: any Evil
HD: d6
BAB: 3/4 (as Rogue)
Good Saves: Will / Bad Save: Fortitude, Reflex
Skill Points: 4 + Int bonus
Class Skills: Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowlege (Arcana, Religion, Planes) (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).

Weapons and Armor: All simple and martial weapons, no armor or shields.

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[u]Level   BAB   Fort	Ref	Will	Special Abilities[/u]
 1	+0	+0	+0	+2	Aura of Evil, Dark Patron, Entropy's Hand, Infuse with Evil (Tiny)					
 2	+1	+0	+0	+3	Evil's Favor
 3	+2	+1	+1	+3	Sneak Attack +1d6
 4	+3	+1	+1	+4	Dark Gift, Grant Boon
 5	+3	+1	+1	+4	Infuse with Evil (Small)
 6	+4	+2	+2	+5	Sneak Attack +2d6
 7	+5	+2	+2	+5	
 8	+6	+2	+2	+6	Dark Gift
 9	+6	+3	+3	+6	Sneak Attack +3d6
10      +7	+3	+3	+7	Infuse with Evil (Medium)
11      +8	+3	+3	+7	
12      +9	+4	+4	+8	Dark Gift, Sneak Attack +4d6
13      +9	+4	+4	+8	
14      +10	+4	+4	+9	
15      +11	+4	+4	+9	Infuse with Evil (Large), Sneak Attack +5d6
16      +12	+5	+5	+10	Dark Gift
17      +12	+5	+5	+10	
18      +13	+6	+6	+11	Sneak Attack +6d6
19      +14	+6	+6	+11	
20      +15	+6	+6	+12	Greater Infuse with Evil, Dark Gift
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Special Abilities:

Under Construction

Dark Patron-similar to above
Aura of Evil-as per Blackguard
Entropy's Hand-opposite of Lay on Hands, deals damage rather than heals
Evil's Favor-Cha bonus to saves
Infuse with Evil-Grant weapon ability to penetrate damage reduction as if it were an evil weapon as well as deal +1d6 unholy damage (improves to +2d6 at level 5, and then +1d6 more every 5 levels after) to good characters per strke. Limit on weapon size, usable once per day and effects weapon for 10 minutes/level.
Dark Gift-Misc. abilities, some similar to that of those above and some not (like + caster level/spell save DC or ability to cast Lesser Planar Ally -Fiends only- 1/day, +2 profane bonus to a stat)
Grant Boon-Ability to transfer any Dark Gift one might have to some one else temporarily, while that person benefits from the boon they radiate an Aura of Evil of the same level as the one they made a deal with. Boons usually granted in conjunction with contracts.