Input on this Encounter (Sorry this is long)

GrayIguana

First Post
I thought I would ask everyone’s opinion on how I ran the following encounter. Sorry if it is a bit long, but I think the background is a bit necessary.

The group contains 6 characters with an average level of 16, and they were trying to rid the countryside of a trio of blue dragons (mature adult). The three dragons are in the area in an attempt to establish a territory for themselves among other dragons.

The group found that the three dragons established a lair high in a mountain cliff. There was no easy access to the lairs entrance. The group watched the area and waited for the dragons to all leave the lair at once. (The dragons periodically left to attack a green dragon (wyrm) that lives in the area. They had managed to wound the stronger dragon and it was behaving defensively for the moment). When the dragons were gone, the group’s wizard flew up to the lair’s entrance to scout, and in short time the entire party was in the lair (via teleport spells).

The group found that the lair consisted of the following elements. The main entrance contained a large open area which was large enough for all three dragons to land and move freely. This large area narrowed into a smaller tunnel that led to the deeper lair. The group estimated that this tunnel was only large enough for one of the dragons to pass through at a time. This tunnel was also roughly 65 feet in length. Beyond this tunnel was the larger lair which was an area large enough for all three dragons to move about freely. The dragon’s had not yet created much in defenses as they depended on the general location of their lair and the fear of their presence to keep away treasure hunters.

The group immediately formed the following plan. They would ambush the dragons from the inner chamber. The narrow tunnel would force the dragons to fight the group one at a time. The entrance to the inner chamber also had sharp enough corners to provide protection if the dragon’s breathed lightening from the other end of the tunnel. A battle formation was made, and an invisilbe scout kept an eye out for the dragon's return.

I soon told the scout’s player that he spotted the dragons approaching in the distant sky. The scout returned to the party and preliminary spells were cast (much of the party had improved invisibility cast upon them). All in all, the party was very prepared for battle.

The party heard the dragons land on the cliff’s edge. They could hear the creature’s heavy foot steps and it appeared that one of the beasts was heading toward the tunnel. Then the dragons began to talk among each other, and the characters could hear sounds as if the dragons were sniffing around their cavern. (Only one of the characters spoke Draconian so only that character could hear the dragon’s conversation. Of course he didn’t want to speak and let the rest of the party know that the dragon’s smelled the presence of humans in their lair.) Then the dragons started yelling into the tunnel and the whole group knew the element of surprise was lost. (This aroused some grumbling from the players, but a few of them kicked themselves for not remembering how I play the senses of a dragon).

Still the group decided to wait it out. They figured that the dragons would still have to enter the lair and fight them. Instead the group only heard muted talk from the dragons and then two of the dragons flew off. After a short time the dragons returned. They flew to the entrance carrying large dead logs and branches. The dragons stuffed these into the entrance of the tunnel and the group realized what may be happening. The group’s sorcerer decided to attempt an ice storm spell upon the logs to hinder any attempt at lighting a fire. The spell worked to a degree, but the PC didn’t escape getting caught by one of the dragon’s breath weapons. She luckily made it back to relative safety with a couple hit points.

After a bit of time, the dragons started a fire on the logs (via spells). The inner lair began to fill with smoke, and all the while the dragon’s alternated in getting more fuel for the fire.
(At this point, I could tell the party was at it’s wits end. The argument now was that I was playing the dragons as if they were much smarter than they should be. It was also near the end of our rather long gaming session, so I came up with an out for them.) One of the party then noticed that some of the smoke was escaping through a series of cracks in the back of the cave. The cracks weren’t big enough to give relief from the choking smoke, but the party’s priest was able to cast Wind Walk to allow the part to escape. Now the party has to contend with the dragons rampaging across the country side.

Now I feel that I did not play the dragons by giving them tactics beyond what an intelligence of 16 would allow. I also think it is very plausible that the dragons would smell any humans who have entered their secluded lair. Finally, I don’t see a problem with a dragon picking up a fairly good sized log and flying with it. But give me some input.
 

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Nice way to run things. Dragons are nothing to mess with, and it's good to remind the players of this every now and then. The 'smoke 'em out' tactic is an old classic. They shouldn't complain that you pulled that on them, a half-dead orc could think that up.

I would have expected for one of the dragons to start tearing into the players while the other one used it's breath weapon and cast buff spells on it's buddy. But that was more interesting and unexpected.

All in all, they have no reason to complain. You went easy on them.:)
 

I think you handled the encounter beautifully. Encounters that frustrate the players, but give them an out really can build up hatred for the villains.

I always avoid too much frustration - many of my players come to the table to kill things - and I always try to make the game fun for them. But making things too easy is not always fun in the long run.

I might be slightly concerned that your players question whether the dragons would be this smart. How do they know these particular dragons have an Intelligence of 16?

Further, I absolutely agree that this is well within the bounds of a creature with an intelligence of 16.

This isn't Diablo II. A thinking foe is part of the fun for most people. Surely these players are clever enough to come up with another plan that might even exploit this encounter. Like baiting the Dragons...

edit: PS - I love Diablo II for the record.
 
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I agree with Angcuru. That's a very nice job of RPing some dragons. Remember, Int 16 is the intelligence for an exceptionally smart human. Like the others have said, it doesn't take a genius to smoke out foes that need to breathe. And remember, dragons have very good senses, and a historical/legendary background for the sense of smell thing. I'd even go as so far as to say that one of the dragons should have had gone to the crack (if he had known about it) to grab at any escapees.
And how do they know that these are just straight from the MM blue dragons? Remember that you can roll stats for monsters. Maybe they all have above average intelligence for blues.

Demiurge out.
 

You posted this thread in a sort of defensive stance, and it seemed like you were looking for reassurance that you did the right thing. Well, you did. You didn't kill your players right off once they were stuck inside the cavern - so you didn't leave them choiceless, but still you showed them what 3 adult blue dragons can come up with. I say well done.
~~Brandon
 

Well done. It's a bit gritty but very well done.

And you went seriously easy on the players. Dragons can sense for hundreds of feet within their lairs and see invisible creatures (or at least I remember them being able to).

Why would three (evil no less) dragons be working together? I supose it's perfectly reasonable, but most dragons are presented as having difficulty working together past a certain age.
 

Thanks

Thanks for the input. I've actually been DMing for quite a while (on and off since 85). Even then it is nice to get someone elses view point. We still have some problems shaking off conceptions of creatures from the first edition rules to be honest. We never played dragons as being intelligent, spell-casting creatures when we first started playing.

I basically shrugged this off to it being late at night, and everyone was just getting tired of playing. But it never hurts to get input.

I didn't mention that the dragon's also had cast defensive magics upon themselves once they detected the intruders. They had plenty of time. The sad part is that I really think the party won't have that hard of a time with these dragons if they can get the dragons on the ground. It will be a challenge but not an impossibility.

Also someone asked why the three were working together. IMC dragons are a bit more organized in several areas. In this instance, several more powerful dragons controll the surrounding territories. These dragons have banded together in hopes of securing a better and larger territory that belongs to a Green Wyrm (CR22). If they happen to succedd though, it is most likely that they will eventaully turn on eachother.
 

Seems perfectly reasonable for blues - lawful dragons known for being quite sneaky. Some dragons - eg reds - would be more inclined to attack first and only resort to sneaky tactics if the foe proved tougher than expected. Blues are more cautious and might well assume that a foe able and willing to ambush them in their lair posed a significant threat.

If anything, I do think you went very easy on the _16th level_ PCs, giving them a way out. At that level I'm surprised they couldn't just get out of the cave by teleporting, going ethereal, plane shift etc. A 16th level party dumb enough to hole up in a static position with no way out deserves to be TPK'd IMO.
 


Just speaking generally on the intelligence issue, I have come to believe that In terms of Intelligence scores, you just add and extra 0 and you get an IQ. I.E. a Human with INT 13 would have an IQ of around 130. Mind that since the average human has straight-8's in game terms, this seems to work out quite well. 10s are average for adventurers, so to speak, not for commoners. at least that's how I play it out.

Syou would treat these dragons as having IQs of around 160, making them, in human terms, geniuses. (anyone with an IQ above 145 is in the High end of the Gifted Range, 155+ would be Genius)

So those dragons acted quite well in terms of their Intelligence.
 

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