Insanely dangerous things you can throw at low level players fairly

[JacktheRabbit]

Re: Mmmmh...

Only if drider is run as a fool.

1. Suggestion is guarunteed to work on one of the parties tanks.

2. Speed 30ft and Climb 15ft means hit and run with ease against a 1st level party or even a 3rd level one.

3. SR14 means a good percentage of the parties spells will fail immediatly.

4. Levitate, Dispel Magic and Darkness will reign havok on the party.

No first level part should win in this situation and even a 3rd should be hard pressed. I would admit though that CR7 is a bit high. As stated a Drider should be CR5 if for no other reason than a 5th level fighter or barbarian will tear it to pieces in 2 maybe 3 rounds all by himself.

Now, a much easier encounter would be a Drider: AC 17, an very poor attack bonuses (+3 melee, +0 bite). Its magical power are mainly on the "detect" side. And even if it lands a poisonous bite, it results in 1d6 temporary Strength. It only has 45 hp (might survive 2 rounds). This beast is also CR 7. Free x.p. anyone ? A 3rd level party will almost always defeat it, and even a 1st level party has a good 80 % chance of success (IMO).

If there are 4 PC's in that 1st level party and they win the encounter, that will give them each 900 x.p., add to this an encounter with 4 orcs, and they are now level 2. Two other encounters with an individual drider (much easier now that they are level 2), four more orcs, and they are level 3. All this might take 3 hours of game time, and after the first game session, the PC's are already 3rd level.

Things to consider...

 

[Tonguez]

Would you still give them x.p. ? If so, all of them, or a fraction ?

Don't know about Psion but IMC I'd give full XP - the objective is for PCs to 'overcome' challenges not kill everything they come across.

I throw al sorts of things at the PCs (including Trolls, a Wyvern, an Avalanche, Crop failure, and a band of Goblin rogue 3 - 6 lead by a Goblin cleric 7/ranger 3)
I generally use a basic rule of CR+3 as being fair with higher CRs being set to challenge the PCs wits and RPing.
IMHO ALL encounters should be designed so that a party has at least 2 options - either Fight or use Skills (both Practical and RP eg Diplomacy to inspire the villages to arms).

In Psions example if the PCs have the foresight to use their skills to get past the Iron Golem then they have overcome the challenge (remember BAb is just another skill) and deserve the XP

 

[dave_o]

Yeehaw! Kentucky!

Of course, you could always give monsters weakspots. Maybe the Goblin overlord has a trick knee, or the Troll can't regenerate when immersed in water. You don't always have to follow the rules, verbatim.

Of course, as my fellow Kentuckians will agree, a Moonshine Golem would be as fun as it is deadly.

 

[Nightfall]

Black Pelts and Maulers. Definately not your average CR 3 creatures. Another, and this is a favorite of mine, Ferals! Just one pack is pretty tough for a 5th level party!

 

[Sodalis]

i like using darkmantles. they drop out of the air and wrap around a player's head. If you target the caster- the rest will follow.

I dropped one on my wiz once, and the fighter said he wants to whack it off with his sword. Well- he killed the daarkmantle- and left the wiz bleeding and unconscious...

 

[I'm A Banana]

(doublepost)

 

[I'm A Banana]

This brings up a question I've been meaning to ask for some time....

Does anybody use "boss" monsters? How much higher CR should they be than the party?

By this, I mean one monster who, by his lonesome, could probably kill at least 50% of the party before going down. I've had creatures a good 2-3 CR's higher than the party go down pretty quickly, and damage the players little if at all.

I mean, I like the idea of a cardre of lesser beasts followed by a "big bad," but what kind of guidelines should I use for the big bad? And how big is too big? Certainly, if a monster can kill a character in one round of fighting by damage/number of attacks, it's too powerful, eh?

I mean, keeping in mind that the environment/special conditions/etc.

 

[Destil]

Driders....

Everyone seams to be ignoring that all driders are 6th level clerics, wizards or sorcerers, in addition to their other spell-like abilites..,

Hello haste, fireball, cause serious wounds (can be delivered with a bite attack & poison , too!) et cetera.

 

[S'mon]

What sort of things have you DMs thrown at players that were way too tough for them to defeat in straight combat but still expected them to overcome somehow?

My best example is a rakasha. All you need is a good shot with a crossbow and a level 1 cleric.

But how bout you?

In my lowish-magic campaign I've used a lot of giant types against low-medium level PCs. Ettins are nasty. The first Ettin they met lasted several battles, smashing into their village rooms and chasing them all over the landscape, before the climactic encounter where it killed a PC sorcerer, Vasquez, with its death-blow (it was at 0hp, but VERY angry and criticalled). The next Ettin, they were with a bunch of 12 War1 halberdiers who held it off while the new Sorcerer, Drake (brother of the previous), lightning bolted it; it took down 10 men before being bolted into submission - the last bolt also killed a War1, leaving one man standing. Conversely a hill giant in a marsh throwing rocks was swiftly bolted to death by Drake - it was on a hillock throwing rocks at him; now 7th level he was able to Haste and hit it with 2 lightning bolts for every rock it threw at him; nasty.

 

[S'mon]

As people have noted, a lot of the CRs bear little relation to actual threat. I recall a 1st level party almost wiped out by 1 "CR1" ghoul, we were lucky the last man standing nailed it. 3 ghouls against a 3rd level party could easily TPK. I make ghouls CR2.
Likewise, 1 "CR2" ogre against a 1st level party is almost bound to kill several; and it's massively tougher than a CR2 bugbear - I make ogres CR3.

There are reverse examples - clearly a 7th level Commoner is not really CR 6! And more problematically a 6th level Warrior "CR5" bears little relation to a CR 5 Ettin or Troll, even if given magic as a 5th level NPC Fighter.