Inspire Courage Optimization

[Seeten]

For Words of Creation, I'd double first, then add the additional modifiers.

 

[Stalker0]

I don't think any fighter can argue with a bard that can grant him +21 to damage. (+7 damage, +14 for two handed power attack).

 

[FireLance]

Could I get some opinions on how the doubling effect of Words of Creation interacts with the other bonuses here?

I'd rule that it doubles the effect of bonuses from levels (so it would stack with the vest) but I'd rule that it only works with vocal performances - Perform (sing), Perform (oratory), and maybe Perform (comdey), so it would not stack with the effects of masterwork instruments, Song of the Heart, or inspirational boost.

That seems...huge! Carried over everyone's attacks, the amount of damage accounted for by that ability for the course of a single combat is likely massive.

I have a theory that WotC tends to make boosting abilities (bardic music, the White Raven maneuvers from the Book of Nine Swords) a bit more powerful to encourage co-operative play, and because the booster usually has to work through others and share the spotlight.

 

[Sejs]

I'd rule that it doubles the effect of bonuses from levels (so it would stack with the vest) but I'd rule that it only works with vocal performances - Perform (sing), Perform (oratory), and maybe Perform (comdey), so it would not stack with the effects of masterwork instruments, Song of the Heart, or inspirational boost..

I could definitely see that as appropriate. They are words of creation, after all. Not.. I don't know.. sheet music of creation. Guitar Tableture of Creation.

That said, I would, however, let a character overlap performance methods if they had the requisite ranks in both Perform specializations. So if you have enough ranks in both Perform (Sing) and Perform (Stringed) I'd allow for the overlay of the modifiers from both Words of Creation and a masterwork lute, say. Singing with accompanyment and all that.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

There is some non-update 3.0 stuff that could be used, such as Crescendo. But, a lot of folks don't use 3.0 stuff, even if it remains not updated.

And Words of Creation. BoED is a non-updated 3.0 book, as you can tell by briefly glancing at the feat.

Doubling the bonus Inspire Courage bonus is one thing when it stays at +1 forever. It's entirely different when it goes up to +4 to hit and damage as it does in 3.5.

Considering the changes in the bard class from 3.0 to 3.5, it should not come as a surprise that Inspire Courage can get utterly and completely broken by applying a powerful 3.0 feat verbatim to 3.5 abilities.

 

[Slaved]

Subsonics can be a nice feat. It allows you to be a lot more stealthy about the use of the bardic song after all.

 

[Sejs]

Subsonics can be a nice feat. It allows you to be a lot more stealthy about the use of the bardic song after all.

Subsonics can get downright disgusting.

Bard X, Shadowdancer 1, Subsonics feat.

What's that you say? Fascinate and Suggestion and they don't even know I'm there? The save DC against my Suggestion is still equal to my perform check, so nobody ever will make it? And I can do it how often? Do go on.

 

[Sound of Azure]

Subsonics can get downright disgusting.

Bard X, Shadowdancer 1, Subsonics feat.

What's that you say? Fascinate and Suggestion and they don't even know I'm there? The save DC against my Suggestion is still equal to my perform check, so nobody ever will make it? And I can do it how often? Do go on.

I thought the target of Fascinate had to be able to see you? Or is that something that subsonics gets past?

 

[Wish]

We had this character in a campaign we played. He also had a marshall level for a nice +8 initiative bonus. Our fighters loved loved loved it. I believe we treated it like damage doubling on a crit - add all the bonuses and double it at the end - which obviously makes it even more effective. But the +5 we got with a 'normal' inspire courage wasn't so bad either.

 

[Sejs]

I thought the target of Fascinate had to be able to see you? Or is that something that subsonics gets past?

Actually no, that's a good catch on your part. Fascinate requires the target to be able to see and hear you. I'd always rembembered it was see or hear.

So, thanks for the heads-up.