Instant Fortress, can you furnish it?
- Thread starter Arravis
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Henry
Autoexreginated
The problem is, where do you draw the line without it looking like DM fiat (which it is, because allowing ANYthing in it when closed is not strictly by-the-book). What would be the reasoning for how "The Magic" knows the difference between beds, chairs and cookware versus hand-carts, ladders, and my sword-collection?
Treebore
First Post
Fortress' can be stolen just as easily as anything else, if that is what I need to do to restore balance to my game.
However, if the PC had the treasure I don't care where they keep it. If they invested in or earned the fortress, bags of holding, haversacks, and portable holes, then why should I be unhappy with them because they use them smartly?
In my games I also house rule that any item you are wearing "exposed", has to make items saves whenever you fail to save. Of course, I only really pay attention to this rule when the PC's need to have their power level knocked down.
When they complain about this "inconsistancy" I ask them if they would like me to make sure I always remember this rule, or if they can live with me remembering it only when I see a need for it?
Guess what their answer always is?
I have only had such problems with high level groups anyways, such as 14th level or higher. Since campaigns have rarely lasted that long I have rarely had to do such things anyway.
So between theft, failed magic saves, or looting their unconcious/dead bodies, I have plenty of opportunities to keep the items and wealth in control.
So they can use those storage items as much as they want. When the items are destroyed/stolen/lost it just makes it that much more painful.
However, if the PC had the treasure I don't care where they keep it. If they invested in or earned the fortress, bags of holding, haversacks, and portable holes, then why should I be unhappy with them because they use them smartly?
In my games I also house rule that any item you are wearing "exposed", has to make items saves whenever you fail to save. Of course, I only really pay attention to this rule when the PC's need to have their power level knocked down.
When they complain about this "inconsistancy" I ask them if they would like me to make sure I always remember this rule, or if they can live with me remembering it only when I see a need for it?
Guess what their answer always is?
I have only had such problems with high level groups anyways, such as 14th level or higher. Since campaigns have rarely lasted that long I have rarely had to do such things anyway.
So between theft, failed magic saves, or looting their unconcious/dead bodies, I have plenty of opportunities to keep the items and wealth in control.
So they can use those storage items as much as they want. When the items are destroyed/stolen/lost it just makes it that much more painful.
Henry
Autoexreginated
Treebore said:
The bags, 'sacks, and 'holes I would have no problem with, because even though they hold a lot, it's still a finite amount. On the other hand, a Daern's Fortress is a portable warehouse with no chance of loss or damage to anything inside, unless the PCs get really sloppy. It's not a problem to me, because I have rarely ever allowed the item into my games, unless the setting was appropriate, but it's something I could see getting abused rather quickly.
Then again, that which is rooted, can be torn down like anything else...
Storm Raven
First Post
Henry said:
It would be difficult to keep much of anything that would be immediately useful in the fortress though. First off, you have open the thing up to get inside, which may not be safe (or even possible) in tight quarters. Second, you have to find the thing you are looking for, by going in and hunting through the fortress (unlike a bag of holding, or similar item where you just pull the desired item out of the top).
Henry said:
Correct. But I have no problem with 'DM Fiat'. If I felt they were getting abusive, I would let them know, (their character would make a Wis check, and realize, 'hey, the more we put in, the longer it takes to form, and it seams to be looking worse and worse.... hmmmm' Or something like that.) I have no need to determine the line now, because it may be that filling it with 1000' of rope just isn't a problem. Afterall, they would be pretty high level before they could get one of these.
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
Frankly - by the time a party have one of these, carrying loot, or having mundane equipment is simply not a problem. I would expect that, before a party got one, I would have stopped worrying about characters having or not having most types of non-magical equipment.
Steve Jung
Explorer
Don't the Defenders of Daybreak from Piratecat's story hour have one of these? It's furnished, but I don't know if the furnishings came with the Fortress.
ElectricDragon
Explorer
The spell that is required to make the fortress actually mentions this fact:
I bolded the important part of the spell description. Now, everything in the spell description is not included in the tower, but I think furnishings should be. What good is an empty tower except to hide in when the dragon flies over?
I allow constructs, plants, and incorporeal creatures to be inside when the tower is shrunk; as well as whatever loot or equipment the owner wants to be in there. Incorporeal creatures are not constrained to remain inside the shrunken tower, though. Usually, the tower also contains a small lab, library, sleeping and living quarters, and some type of siege weapon on the crenellated battlements. I usually make the owner draw up a set of plans of the tower when first acquired (unless I have specific plans for it myself) and I am quite loose about how much furniture comes with it, whether it includes ladders or stairs, if it has any magical protections cast on specific parts of it, etc.
By using this method, I now have over half-a-dozen different layouts for such towers from old campaigns that I can use to throw at PCs whenever I want. By the time this magic item is in PC hands, minor things like furniture, equipment, or storage space for treasure not used in adventuring tend to be either readily available or easily acquired.
When shrunken, how hard is it to use Sleight of Hand to relieve the character of it if it becomes a problem?
Ciao
Dave
I bolded the important part of the spell description. Now, everything in the spell description is not included in the tower, but I think furnishings should be. What good is an empty tower except to hide in when the dragon flies over?
I allow constructs, plants, and incorporeal creatures to be inside when the tower is shrunk; as well as whatever loot or equipment the owner wants to be in there. Incorporeal creatures are not constrained to remain inside the shrunken tower, though. Usually, the tower also contains a small lab, library, sleeping and living quarters, and some type of siege weapon on the crenellated battlements. I usually make the owner draw up a set of plans of the tower when first acquired (unless I have specific plans for it myself) and I am quite loose about how much furniture comes with it, whether it includes ladders or stairs, if it has any magical protections cast on specific parts of it, etc.
By using this method, I now have over half-a-dozen different layouts for such towers from old campaigns that I can use to throw at PCs whenever I want. By the time this magic item is in PC hands, minor things like furniture, equipment, or storage space for treasure not used in adventuring tend to be either readily available or easily acquired.
When shrunken, how hard is it to use Sleight of Hand to relieve the character of it if it becomes a problem?
Ciao
Dave
Treebore
First Post
Exactly! If it is a rogue with good UMD ranks or appraisal ranks he is going to have a good idea what the object is as well. Or at least have a solid feeling that the object is worth a LOT of money.
Like Henry alluded to, you have to run campaigns of levels to where this would even be a treasure, or makeable by the PC's to really worry about it. Even so, at those levels, there are plenty of other balance issues to worry about, and abuse of the fortress is easy to remedy. Besides, do enough damage to it so the PC's start seeing a need to cast Wish or Miracle to repair it. That will drain resources fast.
Of course I would rather build a new one rather than use a Wish or Miracle to fix it, assuming my character can make it.
Like Henry alluded to, you have to run campaigns of levels to where this would even be a treasure, or makeable by the PC's to really worry about it. Even so, at those levels, there are plenty of other balance issues to worry about, and abuse of the fortress is easy to remedy. Besides, do enough damage to it so the PC's start seeing a need to cast Wish or Miracle to repair it. That will drain resources fast.
Of course I would rather build a new one rather than use a Wish or Miracle to fix it, assuming my character can make it.
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