INT boosting Items and spell levels

[Zedcuk]

Okay its probably been covered before but im looking for some clarification or a point blank no your wrong.

We have a lvl 5 wizard. Hes a low int Half orc. Int 11

So A lvl 5 wizard can cast lvl 3 spells. But our poor half orc, being somewhat dense can only cast lvl 1 spells due to his limited int.

One day on a great adventure he stumbles across a headband which he puts on and low and behold 'Im intelligent again' (IQ now equal to several hundred car parking attendants or Burger bar employees) and has an Int of 13.

This is the required level of Int to cast lvl 3 spells. Can he?

No where in the DMG or the PHB does is state max spell level castable is fixed to the characters BASE Intelligence score, neither does it say Modified int score. And some bits in the errata back this up.

Now I know that is the same Half orc wizard lvl 5 who had an int of 13 to start with got the same headband (int 15) he couldnt then cast lvl 5 spells as his level doesnt permit it. (he can however cast lvl 5 scrolls)

Anyone help me out - check my reasoning or point me (with references please) to where this is not the case?

[Incidently this is from a discussion thats been happening on the DDO boards around this thing. With me stating it works and others stating it doesnt. No one can disprove but keep coming back to the the term base int of .... ]

 

[Scharlata]

[...] and has an Int of 13. This is the required level of Int to cast lvl 3 spells. [...] Now I know that is the same Half orc wizard lvl 5 who had an int of 13 to start with got the same headband (int 15) he couldn't then cast lvl 5 spells as his level doesn't permit it. (he can however cast lvl 5 scrolls) [...]

Hi!

You got it right.

Kind regards and welcome to the boards.

P.S.: And greetings to all park lot guards and burger bar employees. The example did you wrong.

 

[Staffan]

He can now cast 3rd level spells. He might not actually know any, though, if he gained levels 3-5 with Int 11 - he would probably have preferred to learn more 1st level spells instead. There's nothing stopping him from starting learning high-level spells now that he got a brain boost though.

 

[MerakSpielman]

And nothing stopping him from metamagicing his 1st level spells into 2nd or 3rd level spell slots... of course, then he would have had to have taken metamagic feats back when there he had no higher level spell slots within which to use them...

 

[Chorn]

of course, then he would have had to have taken metamagic feats back when there he had no higher level spell slots within which to use them...

Incorrect. Despite not having a sufficient score to cast them, he'd still have those higher level slots. Using metamagic would be more efficient, but there's nothing stopping him from preparing lower level spells in those slots. So a 5th level wizard with 10 Int could fill up his 1st through 3rd level slots with cantrips.

 

[Hypersmurf]

And nothing stopping him from metamagicing his 1st level spells into 2nd or 3rd level spell slots... of course, then he would have had to have taken metamagic feats back when there he had no higher level spell slots within which to use them...

Even without the Headband, an Int 11 Wiz-5 can cast an Empowered Magic Missile.

He can't cast 3rd level spells, but Empowered Magic Missile isn't a 3rd level spell.

"The minimum Intelligence score needed to cast a wizard spell is 10 + the spell’s level."

"Spells modified by a metamagic feat use a spell slot higher than normal. This does not change the level of the spell."

"A spellcaster who lacks a high enough ability score to cast spells that would otherwise be his or her due still gets the slots but must fill them with spells of lower level."

And from the 3E Main FAQ:

Say an 11th-level wizard has an Intelligence of 15. Can
the wizard prepare a teleport spell (5th-level spell) enhanced
with the Silent Spell metamagic feat and thus use a 6th-level
spell slot that the character (thanks to low Intelligence)
could not use to prepare a 6th-level spell?

Using a metamagic feat makes the spell occupy a spell slot
of higher level, but it does not actually change the spell’s level,
except for Heighten Spell, which does increase the spell’s level.

So long as the wizard in question has enough Intelligence to
cast the spell at its actual level (15 for the 5th-level teleport
spell) the character can cast the metamagic spell. Note that the
character doesn’t have to use metamagic to use the 6th-level
spell slot; the character can simply prepare any lower level
spell in the slot.

-Hyp.

 

[Zedcuk]

Hi!

P.S.: And greetings to all park lot guards and burger bar employees. The example did you wrong.

Im english. If id have said 'Chavs' a lot of people would think - whats he on about ;-)

BUt thanks for the information. Ive had this posted to disprove my point that an enhancement bonus item will allow a spell caster with lower int cast spells they should be able to cast if they had the correct int. (ie int 11 lvl 5 wiz)

From the Player's Handbook 3.5 pg 233

Spell: Fox's Cunning
The transmuted creature becomes smarter. The spell grants a +4 "enhancement" bonus to Intelligence, adding the usual benefits to Intelligence-based skill checks and other uses of the Intelligence modifier. Wizards (and other spellcasters who rely on Intelligence) affected by this spell do not gain any additional bonus spells for the increased Intelligence, but the save DCs for spells they cast while under this spell’s effect do increase. This spell doesn’t grant extra skill points.
Arcane Material Component: A few hairs, or a pinch of dung, from a fox.

From the Dungeon Master's Guide 3.5, pg 258

Headband of Intellect: This device is a light cord with a small gem set so that it rests upon the forehead of the wearer. The headband adds to the wearer’s Intelligence score in the form of an enhancement bonus of +2, +4, or +6. This "enhancement bonus" does not earn the wearer extra skill points when a new level is attained; use the unenhanced Intelligence bonus to determine skill points.

From the Dungeon Master's Guide 3.5, pg 268

Tome of Clear Thought: This heavy book contains instruction on improving memory and logic, but entwined within the words is a powerful magical effect. If anyone reads this book, which takes a total of 48 hours over a minimum of six days, she gains an "inherent" bonus of from +1 to +5 (depending on the type of tome) to her Intelligence score. Once the book is read, the magic disappears from the pages and it becomes a normal book. Because the tome of clear thought provides an inherent bonus, the reader will earn extra skill points when she attains a new level.

From the "Main35FAQv11192004" (off Wizard's website), pg 20
Question:
Do ability enhancing items (such as the headband of intellect, cloak of charisma, and periapt of wisdom) grant bonus spells to the appropriate spellcasters? The spells these items are based on would seem to prohibit it, but the only things specifically addressed in the item descriptions are skill points.

Answer:
Yes, you can get extra bonus spells if you have an item that increases the ability score that governs your spellcasting. To get the extra bonus spells, you must wear the item while resting to regain spells and all through your initial daily preparations for spellcasting. (Even characters who don’t prepare spells need to meditate a little while at the beginning of the day; see Daily Readying of spells under the Sorcerers and bards section of
Chapter 10 in the Player’s Handbook.) If you lose the item, you immediately lose the bonus spell slots the item gave you, starting with any uncast spells you have of the appropriate levels

All of this points to bonus spells.

To my mind if a fighter gets a pair of Gauntlets of ogre strength - they will expect their damage to be increased accordingly. Likewise a CHR lacking sorceror or a Int lacking WIZ would look to items to boost their values to allow them to cast spells that their normal stat precludes them from doing.