Integrating D&D Classes with D20M [Updated 8th April]

Fourth Question --

How does someone achieve a caster level in this system higher than 10 without gaining a level higher than 10 in the AdC?


Fifth Question --

Talent versus FX abilities in Archaic AdC is a little confusing.
Innate Caster, for example, is listed as a Talent in the Bard. However, whenever it is used in the "Building a Bard" it takes up the FX slot of the level build. Does one have to spend FX slots even though the Caster Types are listed as Talent Trees? One can't spend their Talent Tree slot at that level on Caster Type?

Doing it the way it appears to work right now limits selection of Traditions -- one could not select a Tradition if one wanted to reach caster level 10 by the tenth level of the AdC. While this might not be a bad thing, it definitely is a grand departure from standard.
 

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Mordane76, thank you for your time, and the obvious effort you have provided in giving feedback.

Classically Modern, at present, is still a beta document, so any comments or suggestions that you think will add to the work, or improve balance, are very welcome.

Now, on with the questions...

The Daredevil has only one talent tree, but gain multiple talent selections. Using this class as my example -- it has only Adrenaline. Adrenaline has 7 selectable features, some of which stack with themselves (Damage Threshold).

Now -- can a character select a talent from trees he already has access to other than the ones for the class he gained the talent selection from? Say a Tough Hero has Daredevil... and gains a talent selection, but doesn't want something out of Adrenaline. Could he select something out of his Damage Reduction, Energy Resistance, or Unbreakable talent trees from Tough Hero?

No. The character MUST spend all class features on the lists available for the class that grants the feature. So a character with three levels of Tough Hero advancing as a ist level Daredevil must select a talent from the list of talent trees given for the Daredevil, in this case from Adrenaline.

Note that the D20 Modern advanced classes (not the archaic ones) retain ALL the options they have in the rulebook, and gain nothing new.

Traditions, which sorta represent School Specialization (if I'm understanding their position in this document) are not mutually exclusive? One can take Necromantic Tradition, and then pick up Enchantment Tradition, and go on to pick up a few of these... It's just kinda difficult to swallow from a traditional, sacred-cow point of view, and I'm not sure if it's wholly balanced.

You are right. The traditions are not mutually exclusive, and a character can gain more than one, either at the cost of a feat or an FX. From an FX point of view the character must sacrifice a caster level in order to gain the tradition, but as a feat they might present a balance problem. I might consider a rule stating that a character can only cast spells from one tradition, but this is a bit limiting. WHat do you think?

Why would someone with the option to take Scholastic/Scholary or Devotion Focus NOT take it? They basically provides the biggest spell lists for your buck.

Hmmm, they do not provide the bonuses that some of the other, more specialised, foci provide - but I see what you mean. Perhaps a prerequisite on Scholarly and Divination foci, but this may result in a beginning Wizard or Cleric having access to a lot less spells than in the D&D rules...

I am going to add a prerequisite to Scholarly Focus: Int 13+, Knowledge (arcane lore) ranks equal to double the caster level

And to Divination Focus: Wis 13+, Knowledge (religion) ranks equal to double the caster level

- remember that at any point a character no longer meets the requirements for a feat, the feat CANNOT be used, even if the character already has the feat.

How does someone achieve a caster level in this system higher than 10 without gaining a level higher than 10 in the AdC?

Gain levels in another class that offers access to the same caster Talent Trees, such as Artificer (magic item creation) or Spell Shaper (metamagic).

Remember that the caster levels from the same Talent Trees stack, even if purchased from different classes.

Talent versus FX abilities in Archaic AdC is a little confusing.
Innate Caster, for example, is listed as a Talent in the Bard. However, whenever it is used in the "Building a Bard" it takes up the FX slot of the level build. Does one have to spend FX slots even though the Caster Types are listed as Talent Trees? One can't spend their Talent Tree slot at that level on Caster Type?

Doing it the way it appears to work right now limits selection of Traditions -- one could not select a Tradition if one wanted to reach caster level 10 by the tenth level of the AdC. While this might not be a bad thing, it definitely is a grand departure from standard.

Anything listed as an FX Talent can be purchased using an FX class feature and/or a class talent.

So it is entirely possible, IF THE CHARACTER MEETS THE PREREQUISITES OF THE TALENT, to spend *both* on Innate caster. Unfortunately (for the character ;) ), the prerequisites for the Improved and Advanced Innate Caster talents act to prevent this abuse.

And you are right, it is a grand departure from standard, using a Classically Modern archaic class, caster level does not necessarily equal class level - but the new classes offer a much greater range of possible characters.


Thanks
Antony Walls
http://members.lycos.co.uk/merlinsworkshop/
 

Okay -- so a wizard or sorcerer could spend both their Talent spot and FX spot on their caster level-increasing option, but only up to a certain maximum number of expenditures, because of the Knowledge requirements in the Talent.

But the way the talents and requirements work, a wizard could take Arcane Caster twice in their first level, giving them an Caster Level of two as a Wiz1. At Wiz2, they could take Arcane Caster once (Caster Level 3), and then Improved Arcane Caster as their FX, assuming they have at least three ranks in Knowledge (Arcana). This is a Wiz2 with a Caster Level of 4. Now, at Wiz3, he uses his FX slot on Improved Arcane Caster for Caster Level 5.
At Wiz4 he can (because the skills is a class skill) have Knowledge (Arcana) 8, because he can place up to Character Level +3 ranks into this skill, and he is easily a 5th level character (Knowledge (Arcana) is not listed an exclusive skill). So, at Wiz4, he can spend both his Talent and his FX on Advanced Arcane Caster, giving him a Caster level of 7 at Wiz4. After a certain point, yes, the wizard can only add one Advanced Arcane Caster (because he'll have maxed out Knowledge (arcana), and will only be able to add one rank to it per level), but up to that point, he can bust out Caster Level like no one's business, if he's willing to sacrifice added umph in specialized spell lists. If this is incorrect, what restriction am I missing that would prevent this?


I know this the above is just an exercise to see IF the rules can be bent to do something outrageous, but unless I'm forgetting something from d20 Modern, this could create a very unbalanced situation very fast. Most characters are probably going to be Smart Hero/Wizard 3/4 when they get to this point, so a Caster Level of 7 might not be too outrageous (depending on the magic level in your campaign), but if this is so, then why would ANYONE ever use the Mage or Acolyte AdC from the Urbana Arcana section?

Perhaps, since casters get these special FX slots, ONLY FX slots can be used to purchase abilities marked as FX abilities. This may seriously hamper some advancement, and it will force arcanists to choose wisely before they take an FX feat or talent. Also, I'm a sucker for extremely low to low magic systems, especially in modern and post-modern settings... so it would be cool from my POV.
 
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Scholarly Focus and Devotion Focus changes:
I think those will be decidely limiting, and reflect that a wizard must constantly advance their understanding to maintain their Art.


Traditions House Rule:
I don't think there's a need to house-rule it; I was just pointing it out in case the insertation/interpretation wasn't something you wanted, or if you thought what you wrote would be taken elsewhere. I don't have a problem with individuals spending time to focus their abilities into subsets of spells.


I just want to take a minute to say something else, too. I think your mechanics are innovative, and could possibly be MORE useful than some of the present official material out there. I just want to make sure that avenues of abuse aren't written directly into the rules, and if I'm reading something wrong, call me on it... :D
 

But the way the talents and requirements work, a wizard could take Arcane Caster twice in their first level, giving them an Caster Level of two as a Wiz1. At Wiz2, they could take Arcane Caster once (Caster Level 3), and then Improved Arcane Caster as their FX, assuming they have at least three ranks in Knowledge (Arcana). This is a Wiz2 with a Caster Level of 4. Now, at Wiz3, he uses his FX slot on Improved Arcane Caster for Caster Level 5.
At Wiz4 he can (because the skills is a class skill) have Knowledge (Arcana) 8, because he can place up to Character Level +3 ranks into this skill, and he is easily a 5th level character (Knowledge (Arcana) is not listed an exclusive skill). So, at Wiz4, he can spend both his Talent and his FX on Advanced Arcane Caster, giving him a Caster level of 7 at Wiz4. After a certain point, yes, the wizard can only add one Advanced Arcane Caster (because he'll have maxed out Knowledge (arcana), and will only be able to add one rank to it per level), but up to that point, he can bust out Caster Level like no one's business, if he's willing to sacrifice added umph in specialized spell lists. If this is incorrect, what restriction am I missing that would prevent this?

Perhaps, since casters get these special FX slots, ONLY FX slots can be used to purchase abilities marked as FX abilities. This may seriously hamper some advancement, and it will force arcanists to choose wisely before they take an FX feat or talent. Also, I'm a sucker for extremely low to low magic systems, especially in modern and post-modern settings... so it would be cool from my POV.

OK, I'm adding a discussion on low and high power magic in D20M to Classically modern, with options for tweeking the rules for a number of different magic "accessability" ratings. This will allow me to include some of the fixes we discussed, but also leave the GM free to run a more flexible/higher magic campaign if desired.
 

Q&A undate

Check the message boards at the Merlin's Workshop site for a collection of Questions and Answers on Classically Modern, collated from a number of message boards and emails.
 



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