D&D 5E Interest in a Spelless, Yet Magical, Bard, Paladin, and Ranger?

[Blue]

I've said before that I'd love to see a ranger with warlock style invocations. All of which have an in-touch-with-nature theme, but enough viable non-magic choices to make a non-magic ranger as well.

So some invocations would be mimicking ranger/druid spells, either directly or in more "us as often as you want" variations. Others could be around a beast companion, some are around terrain stunts and other skilled activities, etc. The trick is balancing combat pillar and other pillar invocations - perhaps a lot of the invocations should have both combat (& combat-adjacent like stealth) and non-combat effects. It's not like you are likely using both halves of the invocation at the same time.

 

[jsaving]

Why isn't "none of the above" an option? I wouldn't agree with any of the points made by the OP though I appreciate his point of view and have no problem with him creating variant classes that work for him.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Sure. I think there's a broad power equivalence between a half-caster and a ki point caster with spell effects gated at levels 2, 5, 9, 13, and 17. Just not a ki point caster that uses ki to power a full "Spellcasting" feature.

Exactly. magic, but simpler and Less magey than the Spellcasting trait can make a character.

I've said before that I'd love to see a ranger with warlock style invocations. All of which have an in-touch-with-nature theme, but enough viable non-magic choices to make a non-magic ranger as well.

So some invocations would be mimicking ranger/druid spells, either directly or in more "us as often as you want" variations. Others could be around a beast companion, some are around terrain stunts and other skilled activities, etc. The trick is balancing combat pillar and other pillar invocations - perhaps a lot of the invocations should have both combat (& combat-adjacent like stealth) and non-combat effects. It's not like you are likely using both halves of the invocation at the same time.

That could be interesting.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Why isn't "none of the above" an option? I wouldn't agree with any of the points made by the OP though I appreciate his point of view and have no problem with him creating variant classes that work for him.

That is the vote where one doesn’t vote, and just leaves those interested to talk about the thing they’re interested in.

 

[Lanefan]

In this case, what would the bard be doing during combat? Just buffing but in ways that aren't explicitly spells?

Also, this seems to be bringing back one of the most widely-mocked aspects of the 3.X bard, which was the idea that the bard stood aside making music during a fight, while everyone else was doing actual fighting with weapons.

Unless you give the Bard something else she can do in combat through her music - a targeted pacifism effect, for example, or charm/dominate effects, or a "sonic spear" direct damage effect - such that her playing can have a much more direct effect on proceedings than simple buffing.

 

[Eyes of Nine]

A lot of interesting takes so far.

I think what I’d want for each one is;

Bard. Ritual casting with a broader list, and a few spells usable as ritual that aren’t normally. Auras, group buffs and debuffs, more improved rest healing, group heal over time effects, all flavored as the result of the bard’s songs/speech. could also be done with new spells and a subclass that uses inspiration dice differently, but I’m still interested in this approach.

Ranger. Ritual Casting with expanded list. Animal Freindship, Beast Bond, Hunter’s Mark, Pass Without Trace, and a few others as class features. Compile all the UA “replacement” features and add them to the phb features they replace. Abilities to extend their passive feature to their allies at a resource cost.

Paladin. Ritual Casting. Add Magic Cicle, Find Steed, Find Greater Steed, and Hallow as rituals for the Paladin. Beef up and expand the Aura feature. Small group heal using Aura. Ability to spend Lay On Hands points to end a condition that resulted from a failed save. A new Smite feature that lets you choose from a short list of smites, balanced so the pure damage smite isn’t as often the best option.

It would be interesting if D&D Beyond took their data for all the Rangers, Bards and Paladins in their character database and showed what spells were most common. For example, every Ranger I have ever seen played had Hunter's Mark - regardless of ultimate build