Interesting Ryan Dancey comment on "lite" RPGs

[diaglo]

I'd like to see that. In my experience, the myth of hours and hours of prep time is just that--a myth. Either that or inefficent use of time.

it isn't a myth.

heck, i do it for OD&D.

 

[Psion]

18th level cleric

Assume wis 15+4 advancements = 19 = +4 wis bonus

0: 6
1-3: 6+1
4: 5+1
5-6: 4+1
7-8: 3+1
9: 2+1

Domains: Sun, Knowledge
Domain spells: 1 - Detect Secret Doors; 2 - Detect Thoughts; 3 - Searing Light; 4 - Divination; 5 - True Seeing; 6 - Find the Path; 7 - Sunbeam; 8 - Sunburst; 9 - Prismatic Sphere.
Spells prepared: 0 - Create Water, Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Light (x2), Read Magic;1 -Command, Comprehend Languages, Entropic Shield, Protection from Evil, Remove Fear, Shield of Faith; 2 - Bull's Strenght, Bear's Endurance, Owl's Wisdom, Hold PErson, Shatter, Shield Other; 3 - Continual Flame, Invisibility Purge, Magic Circle against Evil, Protection from Energy (x2), Remove Curse; 4 - Death Ward, Dimentiuonal Anchor, Freedom of Movement, Divine Power, Restoration; 5 - Break Enchantment, Flame Strike, Scrying, Spell Resitance; 6 - Greater Dispel Magic, Harm, Heal, Wind Walk; 7 - Holy Word, Regenerate, Summon Monster VII; 8 - Holy Aura, Fire Storm, Summon Monster VIII; 9 - Miracle, True Resurrection.

If I knew how strong or weak the magic provided would be, I might pick magic vestement instead at 3rd level.

Done.

 

[Remathilis]

Well, not very often, admittedly, but if you're playing in a high level 3rd edition campaign, the GM has to spend a lot of time if he's statting out lots of high level spellcasters as opponents. 3rd edition becomes an exponential amount of work the higher the level becomes, unless the game is just completely fluff/story driven.

My last campaign ended at 15th level, and it was heavy combat, with lots of creatures like necromancers and Slaad, some with multiple templates. I had sheets and sheets of monsters statistics, most of whom had inate spellcasting abilities, different levels of immunity like lightning, fire, etc damage reduction, and other things. Combats took an excessive amount of time. It drove me insane. All kinds of "fuzzy" rules came up all the time.

- Is a Slaad big enough to fit inside of an Otiluke's Resilient Sphere?
- Can I dimension Door into an anti-life shell?
- Do mirror images work in the dark?
- how much damage does a large shield, shield bash incur? What are the bonuses to hit?

ad nauseum. After that campaign, I decided that I never wanted to run a high level 3rd edition game again.

Isn't this the same kinda stuff you HAVE to come up with on a near constant basis when using a RL system?

A ORS is a 1 ft diameter per level (15' diameter sphere for 15th level caster) (PH 258) Slaads range from 8-10 feet (MM 229-231)
No rules says you can't but leaving there would hedge you out as normal (PH 248)
Mirror Image is specificly says the attack MUST SEE the image to have an effect. Closing your eyes negates the spell (but effectively blinds you). So no, darkness negates the spell (PH 254)
A large shield does 1d4 damage (PH 116) and is treated as a one-handed martial weapon (PH 125). A LS for an ogre would do (1d6) (PH 114) You use your normal to hit unless you attack with your weapon as well, then you use the TWF penalties appropriate (PH 160)

I found all of this in 5 minutes using the core books. It took longer to find page numbers for the rules I already knew. I fail to see how I could have been faster without making something up on the fly (Yes, No, Yes, eh, 1d6 damage)

 

[Psion]

9:44 - 10:02. 18 minutes. Longer than I expected, but not unreasonable, I think. It would have gone quicker if I had a sheet and just ticked off the spells I wanted -- which I think you would want for a tournament style character sheet.

 

[Gentlegamer]

18th level cleric

Assume wis 15+4 advancements = 19 = +4 wis bonus

0: 6
1-3: 6+1
4: 5+1
5-6: 4+1
7-8: 3+1
9: 2+1

Domains: Sun, Knowledge
Domain spells: 1 - Detect Secret Doors; 2 - Detect Thoughts; 3 - Searing Light; 4 - Divination; 5 - True Seeing; 6 - Find the Path; 7 - Sunbeam; 8 - Sunburst; 9 - Prismatic Sphere.
Spells prepared: 0 - Create Water, Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Light (x2), Read Magic;1 -Command, Comprehend Languages, Entropic Shield, Protection from Evil, Remove Fear, Shield of Faith; 2 - Bull's Strenght, Bear's Endurance, Owl's Wisdom, Hold PErson, Shatter, Shield Other; 3 - Continual Flame, Invisibility Purge, Magic Circle against Evil, Protection from Energy (x2), Remove Curse; 4 - Death Ward, Dimentiuonal Anchor, Freedom of Movement, Divine Power, Restoration; 5 - Break Enchantment, Flame Strike, Scrying, Spell Resitance; 6 - Greater Dispel Magic, Harm, Heal, Wind Walk; 7 - Holy Word, Regenerate, Summon Monster VII; 8 - Holy Aura, Fire Storm, Summon Monster VIII; 9 - Miracle, True Resurrection.

If I knew how strong or weak the magic provided would be, I might pick magic vestement instead at 3rd level.

Done.

Is this a fully stat-ed NPC?

 

[Turanil]

oh well...

 

[WizarDru]

Such arguments firmed up my philosophy that it is not the job of the players to support the game, but vice versa. If your players don't enjoy a game, that is not a slight to the players. You can't obligate the players to fit the game, much less judge them.

Hello, .sig!

I should point out, Dancey and Mike Mearls were both commenting in a comment thread from a BLOG. Not a trade magazine. Not an industry news column. Not even ENWorld. Between professional colleagues (I don't know if they're friends or not, but I assume at least casual acquaintences). This whole "how DARE THEY!" sub-theme to the thread seems awfully silly to me.

Second thought: Dancey and Mearls were talking purely from a financial standpoint. In general, the trend appears that games that are rules heavier sell better and longer than games that don't. That would seem to be self-evident: if a game really only requires a very simple rule-set, it really only needs supplements for fluff....and pure fluff supplements don't really sell that well. Great for individual games, perhaps, but not conducive to continued company growth and support. Right or wrong, that's the direction they're approaching this discussion from, I think. This thread has taken that and made it the footnote, while taking what was an anecdote of the original thread and made it the focus...because that's what interests us.

 

[Desdichado]

18th level cleric
Done.

18 minutes -- a little on the long(er than I claimed) side, but that's using the SRD and posting the results here. Presumably you could shave a little off that with a good pre-printed character sheet and your PHB in hand.

 

[Psion]

My last campaign ended at 15th level, and it was heavy combat, with lots of creatures like necromancers and Slaad, some with multiple templates. I had sheets and sheets of monsters statistics, most of whom had inate spellcasting abilities, different levels of immunity like lightning, fire, etc damage reduction, and other things. Combats took an excessive amount of time. It drove me insane. All kinds of "fuzzy" rules came up all the time.

- Is a Slaad big enough to fit inside of an Otiluke's Resilient Sphere?
- Can I dimension Door into an anti-life shell?
- Do mirror images work in the dark?
- how much damage does a large shield, shield bash incur? What are the bonuses to hit?

(shrug) I have things like this come up from time to time. Make the call, jot it down, look it up later. Record your decision if there is no "right answer".

No system covers everything, but just because you are not playing rules light does not mean you check your DM judgement at the door.

 

[eyebeams]

9:44 - 10:02. 18 minutes. Longer than I expected, but not unreasonable, I think. It would have gone quicker if I had a sheet and just ticked off the spells I wanted -- which I think you would want for a tournament style character sheet.

No, you're not done. That stat bloc isn't complete and the character isn't equipped. This profile does not represent a ready to run character in any way, shape or form. Bzzzt!