Interplanar OSHA +

[Verdigris]

Last night I finally got to the DMG 3.5 discussion of planar cosmology and I couldn't help but wonder a few things...

Why are several planes taken up by unwinnable, endless battles between good and evil? If the battles can never be won, why are good and evil still fighting? Especially in that one where warriors die every night only to be reborn the next morning. Wow. How pointless. It strikes me that despair would be the dominant emotion, not vainglory or valor. And how can forces involved in endless combat have time to reflect on who was committing "good" killing and who was committing "evil" killing?

On the planes where devils and demons fight endlessly, where do baby demons and devils grow to maturity? Where can baby demons go to get storytime from grandpa before bed? Where do teen devils play stickball on the corner lot? How can demons and devils grow up properly in such environments without being killed at tender young ages in whatever useless battle happens to be going on at the time?

With all of the risks of interplanar movement, shouldn't there also be some sort of pan-planar OSHA to warn adventurers against the risks of such travel? Even a pamphlet that reminded adventurers not to forego respirators and/or helmets in certain places would be a good start. (i.e. "Hades and You: Understanding How to Remain Safe in a Poisonous Atmosphere"; or "How to Avoid Lower Back Strain While Digging in Elemental Earth"). It only seems proper and right. PC's deserve nothing less.

Am I alone in worrying about all of this?

 

[Voadam]

With all of the risks of interplanar movement, shouldn't there also be some sort of pan-planar OSHA to warn adventurers against the risks of such travel? Even a pamphlet that reminded adventurers not to forego respirators and/or helmets in certain places would be a good start. (i.e. "Hades and You: Understanding How to Remain Safe in a Poisonous Atmosphere"; or "How to Avoid Lower Back Strain While Digging in Elemental Earth"). It only seems proper and right. PC's deserve nothing less.

Am I alone in worrying about all of this?

Nope, it's a cold, cold multiverse nobody cares about your high level PC's poor whining for government entitlements. Show some spine, go out there, and kill things. Take their stuff and earn an honest day's wages. Why in my day we didn't even have respirators, we went to the elemental plane of fire and burned, it was good for you! You went to the abyss you died, screaming in torment. You whippersnappers these days complaining about everything and expecting the king to take care of it for you.

 

[Carnifex]

Heh, you should read some of the Planescape products, they have excellent details of planar societies and cultures, and good explanations and background for all sorts of planar situational oddities.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Why are several planes taken up by unwinnable, endless battles between good and evil? If the battles can never be won, why are good and evil still fighting? Especially in that one where warriors die every night only to be reborn the next morning. Wow. How pointless. It strikes me that despair would be the dominant emotion, not vainglory or valor. And how can forces involved in endless combat have time to reflect on who was committing "good" killing and who was committing "evil" killing?

It's not pointless because the eternal battle *is* the point. If you kill the other side, it's more support for your side. If you kill more of the other side, at least for a time, you are dominant and supreme. Though they haven't been won *yet*, that doesn't mean they're not winnable. It just means that one must learn from their mistakes for eternity, and your enemy will, too. If you stop fighting them, they've won. And then you're doomed to a world where they are in control

On the planes where devils and demons fight endlessly, where do baby demons and devils grow to maturity? Where can baby demons go to get storytime from grandpa before bed? Where do teen devils play stickball on the corner lot? How can demons and devils grow up properly in such environments without being killed at tender young ages in whatever useless battle happens to be going on at the time?

What makes you think demons, devils, fiends, celestials, formians, and the like *have* babies? That's far too mortal of a concern. If you never die, you don't really need to be born. If you're made of idea and concept, there's nothing in you that needs to grow. You just *poof* into existence, either form the pure focus of belief, or from the will of some greater power. Sometimes outsiders are promoted from other outsiders, sometimes not.

A childhood? These are the pure representations of belief, made reality by the forces of faith alone....you only have a childhood if it helps your cause, and if it doesn't, you don't. Unless you're a god of children, it usually doesn't. You learn, or you die. There are no grandparents, there are no teenagers, there is no need for them -- you are what you are because you were made that way by others.

With all of the risks of interplanar movement, shouldn't there also be some sort of pan-planar OSHA to warn adventurers against the risks of such travel? Even a pamphlet that reminded adventurers not to forego respirators and/or helmets in certain places would be a good start. (i.e. "Hades and You: Understanding How to Remain Safe in a Poisonous Atmosphere"; or "How to Avoid Lower Back Strain While Digging in Elemental Earth"). It only seems proper and right. PC's deserve nothing less.

Try some of the more hospitable of planes, then. Sigil, for a start, or the Outlands ifyou're more the natural type. If there's a community of adventurers on your planes, or locals that aren't Outsiders, there's going to be people and creatures that have stumbled upon these inhospitable planes, and even 'natural' critters that have learned to survive there. Common belief is that if you travel to a plane representing pure, unadulterated evil, you deserve what you get. If fire hurts you, don't go to a plane full of it. And, in general, those who have traveled there on a regular basis have ways of adapting, either naturally, or with technology.

The planes are filled with creatures who don't see reality the way a normal mortal does. The sooner you learn that they ain't nothin' like you, Clueless, the better.

(Bit of In-Character planar cant thrown in there at the end....not really calling you Clueless, man. )

 

[Dragonblade]

Celestials and Fiends do not have children or procreate. They originate from the souls of mortals in the D&D cosmology.

Souls go to the plane that corresponds to their alignment in life. They then become petitioners and become native to those planes. On the plane they live a sort of second live where depending on their actions they either evolve into becoming a fiend or celestial or they are destroyed and asborbed into the essence of the plane itself.

Only the strongest souls, with the deepest commitment to a certain ideal evolve into something higher or more powerful. Most petitioners are simply fodder for the armies of the Bloodwar, or are preyed upon by any number of planar monsters or dangers.

But with an infinite number of prime material worlds, all sending the souls of their dead to the infinite planes, there are bound be a lot of fiends and celestials running around.

 

[Umbran]

Why are several planes taken up by unwinnable, endless battles between good and evil? If the battles can never be won, why are good and evil still fighting?

Because that's what they do. Don't attribute mortal methodology and motives to things that are not mortal.

On the planes where devils and demons fight endlessly, where do baby demons and devils grow to maturity?

Also, don't attribute mortal biology to things which are not mortal

It only seems proper and right. PC's deserve nothing less.

Am I alone in worrying about all of this?

It may seem right, but only from the limited perspective of a mere mortal. You're talking about a larger realm, now, in which there are larger fish to fry then the paltry lives fo a few short-lived people.

 

[nikolai]

Why are several planes taken up by unwinnable, endless battles between good and evil? If the battles can never be won, why are good and evil still fighting? Especially in that one where warriors die every night only to be reborn the next morning. Wow. How pointless. It strikes me that despair would be the dominant emotion, not vainglory or valor.

The planar meta-plot in D&D is quite vague. But there are several reasons you can go for, such as:

1) The battle between good and evil is winnable. It's just no-one's won it yet. If either side did win the universe would be ruled by the forces of the victorious side for all eternity and the other side be consigned to oblivion. The battle is worth fighting as it is for both survival and very high stakes - the only thing standing in the way of disaster is eternal vigilance.

2) The battle is unwinnable. Good and evil will always exist. But as the balance of good and evil shifts, the future of countless worlds and souls is decided. So by gaining an advantage each side wins victories through the corruption/salvation of mortals and the creation of hells/paradises on thousands of worlds. Both sides are fighting not to defeat the other, but to win temporary respite or victories for their side.

If anyone out there has some more takes on it I'd love to hear them.

With all of the risks of interplanar movement, shouldn't there also be some sort of pan-planar [occupational health and safety agency] to warn adventurers against the risks of such travel? Even a pamphlet that reminded adventurers not to forego respirators and/or helmets in certain places would be a good start. (i.e. "Hades and You: Understanding How to Remain Safe in a Poisonous Atmosphere"; or "How to Avoid Lower Back Strain While Digging in Elemental Earth"). It only seems proper and right. PC's deserve nothing less.

Well, yes. I don't think this'd be that organised though. The idea of details of how to survive in the planes being found in ancient tomes and quests for magical equipment which allows you to survive in extreme environment is very D&D. How this works out in a campaign depends upon the frequency of planar travel and how PCs are introduced to the planes. I'd introduce them though the looting of the tomb of a wizard who was rumoured to travel to the "worlds beyond", or have them summon one of the denziens of a plane to interogate, etc.

Thanks for raising the issue. It's at the heart of the D&D backplot, but rarely get's talked about.

nikolai.

 

[Arnwyn]

Am I alone in worrying about all of this?

Yes. Yes you are.

 

[Norfleet]

My view of the battle between good and evil can be summarized in the following:
1. The battle is winnable, it just hasn't happened yet because....
2. The final battle between good and evil will be fought with rocket launchers....
3. Evil will triumph, because good is dumb.

Besides, if you think that despair is would be the dominant emotion of an endless battle, you haven't played enough Quake.