intimidate skill (new post)

[trepanier]

intimidate skill changes

Will test. Dc is intimidate total.
Works on same level or less
If the opponents are compelled to attack, contest of intimidate
with the opponents commander

-5 per difference of size

+ (x2 parties ratio). Ex:100 vs 10 = +20) for commoners and those 5 levels + less than you.

feats: shaken opponents (as minor frightful presence ) and others

same usage as per PHB + these parameters..

There is no explanations for group intimidation... I applied these parameters...

In my commander class, I had abilities based on this skill... to shaken, panic enemy(ies)

A dragon may shaken and panic a fighter.. why not a skilled pc ?



comments ?

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Mechanically, that's not a sound way to work the ability.

Good saves increase +1/2 levels
Weak saves increase +1/3 levels
Class skills increase +1/1 level

Consequently, assuming a +2 wisdom bonus and a +2 cloak of resistance, a 10th level barbarian attempting to intimidate a 9th level fighter would be rolling +13 against the fighter's +7 will save.

At second level, the barbarian would be at +5 and the fighter at +2.

At third level, the barbarian would be at +6 and the fighter at +2.

By 16th level, the barbarian would be at +18 but the fighter would only be at +10.

As you can see, even using assumptions highly favorable to the fighter (cloak of resistance and a high wisdom bonus for him; no charisma bonus, feats, or magic items for the barbarian), the likelihood of a barbarian 1 level higher than the fighter (a difference of rapidly decreasing significance as they both level) intimidating the fighter successfully rapidly increases.

Furthermore, the standard magic item creation charts would make it very easy to get a magic item that increased the intimidate skill of its user by +10 to +20 for less than the cost of a +3 cloak of resistance.

Essentially, saves and skills increase at different rates and have different rules for magic items that add to them so opposing a skill check with a save is an unbalanced idea.

 

[trepanier]

The bard music works the same: perform total vs will... Use the 10+level instead of will if you want...

Also, I rule (it's ann official rule ?) than intimidate doesn't work against higher levels...

Intimidate, if you don't raise its efficiency, it is just there to prevent people to attack or as an interrogation skill. With feats, you can shaken, remove fear, panic one or more individual (class abilities of my noble or commander class, (tread posted on august 5th).

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

This is somewhat misleading. The fascinate ability works this way. The more powerful suggestion ability has a DC of 13+cha modifier.

Also, these are class features rather than skills and fall in a different category as far as balance is concerned.

I don't see why you would want to raise intimidate's efficiency. It's there as a social skill like diplomacy in order to dissuade attack, interrogate, and get your way. It's good and worthwhile in that role.

Adding the "combat intimidation" feature as this rule seems intent on doing makes little sense. In the end, a highly competent fighter, ranger, or rogue will almost always end up cowed by a barbarian one level higher than him but a fighter wouldn't be able to do the same thing to a barbarian. I don't see any reason barbarian levels should be scarier than fighter levels in this case. Furthermore, the will save mechanic will mean that a barbarian will be less able to shake a wizard or cleric who is five feet away from him than a fighter. In my opinion, the opposite should be true--the wizard or the cleric should be more easily intimidated in physical combat than the fighter. (Of course, I don't like the combat intimidation mechanic at all, but if you must do it, it should be easier to intimidate a wizard than a fighter).

The bard music works the same: perform total vs will... Use the 10+level instead of will if you want...

Also, I rule (it's ann official rule ?) than intimidate doesn't work against higher levels...

Intimidate, if you don't raise its efficiency, it is just there to prevent people to attack or as an interrogation skill. With feats, you can shaken, remove fear, panic one or more individual (class abilities of my noble or commander class, (tread posted on august 5th).

 

[trepanier]

So, your main critic is intimidate vs will... In real world, fighters have same guts (or morr) than scholars... In DND, I should then give a bonus to hardened characters without high will...

why not dc = 10+ 1/2 level + wis mods for all (good will!) ? Everyone has good will score against the ability, not just wizards and others.

It's more realistist but not covenient. Maybe against 8 + level + will ?

ideas ?

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

So, your main critic is intimidate vs will...

Quite right.

Also, thinking about it, the glossary specifies that fear effects can stack so, I think if someone who is shaken becomes subject to another condition that would shake them, they become frightened, and one more means they become panicked. I'm not sure about that though. If true, it would make this much deadlier than intended.

Also note, that since shaken is a fear effect, paladins of level 2+ are immune to this skill.

One other thing worth noting is specifying whether the use of this skill is a standard action (I think it ought to be--unless otherwise specified, skills usually are).

In real world, fighters have same guts (or morr) than scholars... In DND, I should then give a bonus to hardened characters without high will...

why not dc = 10+ 1/2 level + wis mods for all (good will!) ? Everyone has good will score against the ability, not just wizards and others.

It's more realistist but not covenient. Maybe against 8 + level + will ?

ideas ?

Hmm. the method you suggest seems reasonable (I'd also allow any bonusses which would otherwise apply to the will save though including iron will and cloaks of resistance, aura of courage, bard song, and bless to apply to this save as well).

It's a bit clunky though to invent a new mechanic for this. Right now, there are three saves and I like the simplicity of that. The real difficulty is that the DC skyrockets as the character's intimidate skill increases. Perhaps a fixed DC would be appropriate. (Although, this really seems more like a prestige class ability than a skill)

You could allow anyone with 5 ranks of the intimidate skill to attempt this as a standard action:
DC 14+cha mod would mimic the fear spell and the DC 13+cha mod bard's suggestion ability. If you decided this was similar to cause fear but weaker since targets are shaken rather than frightened, it would be DC 10+cha mod (useful against low levels, but high level foes would not be so easily intimidated).

That's certainly not ideal though.

Another way would be to simply use the PHB rules for intimidate but decide that a foe who was successfully intimidated would think the PC more powerful than they were and possibly surrender or flee (if merely attacking opportunistically like bandits or if disloyal and their side were clearly losing the battle). Alternately, intimidated foes could adopt a more defensive posture, using expertise, fight defensively, etc.

I think I prefer the latter method.

 

[trepanier]

New intimidate definition

same PHB effects, new modifiers...

DC = 8 + level + wisdom mods and hard will (easier vs mob, harder vs PCs)

Works on same level or less

If opponent compelled to attack, contest of intimidate between intimider and "commander" (intimidate = laedership, command skill for me)

-5 per difference of size

+ (x2 parties ratio). Ex:10 vs 1 = +20).

You intimidate a group but individuals may may intmiidate and others no (depending on level).




I first created this "higher intimidate" for my noble/commander class. But considering movies, TV, etc. where characters may intimidate people by "contests of will", I think you can beat an opponent this gaze befoe unsheating your weapon... at least in fantasy, western and oriental martial arts adventures...

I think fear progression is:
1) simplier is shaken
2) frighten- it's the same if you are compelled to attack
3) panic- you can't fight back

I don't think you cannot mundanelly go up to #3... The best, I think is #2.5... daze opponent...

Here is my noble (commander ?) class... I wanted a character with rogue +8 skills but ... noble, and with ability not like any other core classes. So.. I combine Star Wars' noble bonuses to coordination with new:
tactician (same aid bonus, but in combat), wealth ans status and intimidation/leadership chain of abilities...

please comment..


Hit Die:
Nobles gain 1d6 hit points per level. The character's Constitution modifier applies.


Class Skills
The noble's class skills, and the key ability for each, are as follows (see PHB, Chapter
Four: Skills for skill descriptions).
Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Forgery (Int),
Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Innuendo (Wis), Intimidate (Cha),
Knowledge (Int, all skills taken individually), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession
(Wis), Read Lips (Int, exclusive skill), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language
(Int), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Use magical device (Ch, exclusive skill), Wilderness Lore (Wis).

Skill Points at 1st Level: (8 + Int modifier) x 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 8 + Int modifier.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the noble:

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
The noble may be proficient in the use of all simple and martial weapons and with all types of
armor and . Note that armor check penalties for armor heavier than leather apply to the skills Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Move Silently, Pick Pocket, and Tumble.

Wealth: A noble earns extra monetary wealth. In essence, this can represent any number of things in the game world: An inheritance, a grant, an increase in the aristocrat's station, a lucky trade affair, or simply the continuing growth in value of existing domains. The DM and player should work together to determine the form the new wealth takes each time this option is used. Suggested forms include landed wealth (a manor, rich city house, farmlands, mines, etc), monetary wealth (gems, money) or magical items (should not occur often, but not too rarely either).

At level 1, the noble starts with 900 gp. The noble always have the starting gear for pc as non-gear value. It can be used for mercenaries who to be paid with land but not for merchants.


Status: A noble get an extra + 2* level to diplomacy (or others) rolls made to get help/positive answer from people who recognize her status and care about eventual refusal consequences (ex: to get hospitality from the wary peasant, aware there are werewolfs lurking around). Ex: level 12 duke Elron get a +24 bonus.

DMs rule determines if titles are gifts or must be taken as a feat.



Remove Fear (prer Intimidate/command 5, as the spell)

At level 3, can only cure frightened state. At level 5, panic. At level 10, everyone within 30’.
Roll: 10 shaken, 15 frightened, 25 panicked. Take 10 rounds to protect and 1 round to grant another save.

Coordinate (prer diplomacy 5)
A noble has a knack for getting people to work together. When the noble can aid others
and give directions, she provides a bonus to the task at hand by making an aid another
check. A noble get and extra This bonus is in addition to the normal aid another bonus (+2), and it increases
every six noble class levels. So, the noble provides a total +3 bonus at 2nd level (+2 aid
another bonus, +1 cooperation bonus), a +4 bonus at 8th level, +5 at 14 and +6 at 20. This ability can't be
used to assist in combat.

Leadership
At 6th level, the noble gain the Leadership feat. Bonuses apply at later levels.

Tactician (prer diplomacy or knowlegde(military) 5)
The noble talent as a tactician give an extra circumstance bonus to coordinate people in combat. Allies must have passed at least a day to be trained and got 10 as an intelligence check to understand the noble tactics (can take 10, one roll a day) get and extra +1 (minimum +3) to their aid check.of +2 par level. This bonus raise +1 at level 13 and 19.

Cause Fear (Prer: intimidate 10)
As the spell (save vs intimidate total). Shaken: same as cause fear, only cause a shaken state


Scare (Prer: intimidate 10)
As the spell (save vs intimidate total)

Daze (prer. Intimidate 15)
As the n0 spell. Duration: 1 round/level. Save vs intimidate total. Mass daze: affect any enemy 10’ around the noble.


Table 1-1: The Noble bab: as rogue; saves: Good Will


Level noble

1 Wealth, status and fighter proficiencies

2 Coordinate +3
3 Remove Fear (not panic)
4
5 Remove Fear (panic), shaken
6 Leadership
7 tactician +3, cause fear
8 coordinate +4
9 scare
10 Scare (no 6HD limit), remove fear (anyone within 30’)
11 Leadership +1, tactician +4, feat
12
13 tactician +4 , daze
14 Leadership +2, coordinate +5, feat
15 Mass daze
16 Slippery mind
17 Leadership +3, feat
18
19 Tactician +5
20 coordinate +6, feat