Intimidate, was I wrong?

[Lord Vangarel]

During last nights game the following happened:

One of the players was descending a spiral staircase, as he got towards the bottom he surprised a goblin 2nd level warrior. For his surprise action he decided to Intimidate the goblin into surrendering and coming towards him. The player rolled and got a total score of 30 which needless to say passed. Now unknown to the player the goblin had 4 of his buddies out of sight behind him so rather than drop his weapon (a crossbow by the way) and approach the character he instead turned and ran for his life leaving his buddies behind.

The problem seems to stem from the fact that the players as a whole think the goblin should have done exactly what he was told whereas I kind of think he was seriously scared and flees for his life at the fastest possible speed.

Now the players say Intimidate is useless because the monsters won't do what they want if they succeed. I have tried to explain that the goblin had other options and chose one and in a situation where the goblin had no other options he would probably have done what he was told.

Can anyone help?

 

[hong]

I think you did fine. The goblin wasn't mind controlled, it could still do what it wanted to.

And it's not like your player didn't get anything out of the use of the skill. He prevented the goblin from shooting him, for one. If he _really_ wanted to prevent the goblin from alerting its buddies, he should have just charged in and whacked it.

 

[reapersaurus]

I agree with hong.

 

[Fenes 2]

Intimidate is not dominate. You can make the target fear, but not dictate how it will act upon that fear. Often, with the right prodding, an intimidated character will act accordingly out of fear, but if he has a better option to escape the feared consequences - i.e. running away, the character will choose that option. Most often you have to prevent escape in order to bully a character with intimidate to actually do something.

 

[Thanee]

What they say.

Ask your players, if they wouldn't complain, if a guy with +40 or something to intimidate would control them like puppets... I'm sure they will agree!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Roland Delacroix]

Good answers here so far

If he wants something more flexible he should try Diplomacy. A roll of 30 would have made the goblin at least Indifferent, a 35 would have made him Friendly.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Hm.. the way I see intimidate, you get the other to do what you want. Everyone can scare enemies by punching a hole in the wall (or the like) but intimidate is the art of getting the other to do what you want.
In that case, I think the goblin would be so scared that he'd have done what he was told. Because he just knew that he'd die if he ran away now, because he cannot hide from that demon of a guy.

 

[Darklone]

I am with the majority here. Intimidating someone to do something special requires more than just one good roll. After all, we're talking about a goblin here, running away is natural for them

And considering how goblins treat their captives, he probably wouldn't have surrendered as Kaeyoss wrote... Why should he think he'd rather survive that way? If the player would have pointed a crossbow at him and said: "Don't move!", that would have made the goblin surrender.

Actually, the player frightened his opponent. That's more than most guys would manage with pure intimidation (it's almost magical).

 

[Fenes 2]

If it helps, imagine the NPC was a PC. You can only tell the player that there is an unbelievably menacing, huge foe telling him to do something or else, but you cannot actually make the PC do it without magical compulsion like dominate. It is up to the PC (which means up to the player) how he will react. For PCs intimidating NPCs it works the same - it is up to the DM how the NPC will react when intimidated.

(Yes, one of my pet peeve is players trying to tell me how my NPCs should react. I make those NPCs, I know what their motivations are, I know why they do what. If you want to control NPCs, then DM.)

 

[Lurker]

Are there any good rules how to handle intimidate?

First: The DC=10+HD rule is simply crap.
A naked 12th level rougue with skillmastery(intimidate), a -2 for beeing naked, a fairly high Charisma and/or Skillfocus(Intimidate) can make a titan fear him without a chance of failing. Yeah! sure!

Second: My players like to use the skill especially in situations where someone tells them to "surrender or die".

Think about it: The players (4 PCs, 3rd Level each) are surrounded by highwaymen which demand the PC's money or life (10 NPCs, 1st level each).
The Bard steps for (Intimidate: 6 Ranks+Charisma for a total of +10) and threatens them instead (DC 10+1Level=11). Even if I give the bard a pretty hefty -6 because they're outnumbered he just needs to roll 7 or more to suceed. Is this in any way reasonable? I belive not.

How do you handle Intimidate?