D&D 4E Introducing 4eTurnTracker!

[4eTurnTracker]

If I may be so bold as to make a suggestion...

Let's try to be clear about what our problems are and let the designer go about solving them in the best, most efficient way he can. Ferghis started with a request for an app that would let players control the application of conditions through their phones: clearly a major undertaking. After a short discussion it becomes clear that the real problem to be solved is one of time management. DMs generally have too much to do, we're looking for ways to offload that work.

Exactly! Time management is the big issue.

For this reason I am particlarly interested in any suggestions that would save the DM time, and improve the workflow.

The author should be the one to decide if mobile apps are a good return on his time investment. If not, I expect there could be UI changes that would further simplify for the DM the process of managing this info. Probably not to the point of having players do the work, but maybe shortcutting things enough to make it flow better for DMs like Ferghis. We should be fair in our expectations: remember we used to do it ALL by hand, so delegating to players would be a pretty major paradigm shift.

Yup, I think there is still a lot of stuff we can do to improve the program before I do anything with mobiles.

If Ferghis says it's too much work for him to use the software then I see that as a challenge to improve the user interface.

But, as you say, I don't have the time to take a completely new approach.

Mr. Author (do you have a name to go by?)

Mr Author = Paul

I'd be happy to keep track of some typical workflows using the software and offer you some user/UI metrics. I'll send you something after my next game and you can let me know if it helps you with your planning or not.

That would be much appreciated!

 

[Ferghis]

I didn't mean to come across as cavalier. I thought I expressed my respect for the programmer's time and resources when providing my suggestions. If not, I should have.

If Ferghis says it's too much work for him to use the software then I see that as a challenge to improve the user interface.

A non-networked way to do this would be to make a version that can be used just by players. This involves two features.

Saved list of possible effects for PCs:
Most monster effects are limited to conditions. So the conditions inflicted on the players tend to be limited to those listed in the Rules Compendium. PC power effects, on the other hand, have loads of non-standard effects: can't shift until end of next turn, -5 if moves away from avenger, Divine Challenge (which is different from a regular mark), marked by Aegis (also different from a regular mark), and so on. If players make and save a list of their often imposed effects, and simply slide them onto a target, that save loads of typing (and the effects can be described in some detail). Typing them on the fly, on the other hand, is more time consuming, encourages brevity, and makes it more likely to miss things.
So, if the turn-tracker could function in the hands of one or more players, who could track these details with relative ease (after they setup a list of possible effects), that would be an extremely useful piece of software, even if not networked.

Adding monsters on-the-fly:
In light of the above situation, where players take care of initiative and condition tracking, but possibly useful in others, the ability to add a monster on-the-fly, so to speak, sounds useful. Just an initiative number and a name is necessary, but DMs might find it useful if they could select level and role (and maybe populate the default details), in case they needed a random body that wasn't in the pre-planned encounter.

Also, possible bugs:
- when I imported a dnd4e file, it put the paragon path in the class field. This may be intentional.
- also did not import level (level was left at 1 when importing a level 13 character)
- no way to remove monsters that I could see. I mean, like, exit one encounter and start a new one. This is probably me being stupid.

 

[4eTurnTracker]

I didn't mean to come across as cavalier. I thought I expressed my respect for the programmer's time and resources when providing my suggestions. If not, I should have.

No problem! All comments and suggestions are welcome.

A non-networked way to do this would be to make a version that can be used just by players. This involves two features.

Saved list of possible effects for PCs:
Most monster effects are limited to conditions. So the conditions inflicted on the players tend to be limited to those listed in the Rules Compendium. PC power effects, on the other hand, have loads of non-standard effects: can't shift until end of next turn, -5 if moves away from avenger, Divine Challenge (which is different from a regular mark), marked by Aegis (also different from a regular mark), and so on. If players make and save a list of their often imposed effects, and simply slide them onto a target, that save loads of typing (and the effects can be described in some detail). Typing them on the fly, on the other hand, is more time consuming, encourages brevity, and makes it more likely to miss things.

I think this is a good idea. But I would add the saved list of effects to TT before I create a separate application for the user. A saved effects list could also save the DM a lot of time.

So, if the turn-tracker could function in the hands of one or more players, who could track these details with relative ease (after they setup a list of possible effects), that would be an extremely useful piece of software, even if not networked.

I agree that a non-networked is easier and quicker to implement, and would be very useful. But, I am wondering how users would get the encounter data then?

Adding monsters on-the-fly:
In light of the above situation, where players take care of initiative and condition tracking, but possibly useful in others, the ability to add a monster on-the-fly, so to speak, sounds useful. Just an initiative number and a name is necessary, but DMs might find it useful if they could select level and role (and maybe populate the default details), in case they needed a random body that wasn't in the pre-planned encounter.

Yes, this needs to be improved in the current implementation.

Also, possible bugs:
- when I imported a dnd4e file, it put the paragon path in the class field. This may be intentional.

Yes, this is intentional.

- also did not import level (level was left at 1 when importing a level 13 character)

That's a bug, of course. I will check it out.

- no way to remove monsters that I could see. I mean, like, exit one encounter and start a new one. This is probably me being stupid.

No, the function does not exist yet. I plan to add it soon. At the moment you have to kill the monster or just hide it.

 

[Ferghis]

So, if the turn-tracker could function in the hands of one or more players, who could track these details with relative ease (after they setup a list of possible effects), that would be an extremely useful piece of software, even if not networked.

I agree that a non-networked is easier and quicker to implement, and would be very useful. But, I am wondering how users would get the encounter data then?

That's why I was suggesting the need for a way to add generic monsters on-the-fly. If a player puts them in, just an identifier, an initiative count and the ability to add effects and conditions is needed. Of course, it would be useful for a DM to have level and role appropriate numbers generated if the DM needed it, but the basic feature needed to implement all the encounter data from the players' perspective is much simpler.

Also, possible bugs: ...
- no way to remove monsters that I could see. I mean, like, exit one encounter and start a new one. This is probably me being stupid.

No, the function does not exist yet. I plan to add it soon. At the moment you have to kill the monster or just hide it.

If killed, monsters disappear from the initiative tracker? Or do they just get automatically hidden? I think it would be better to just grey them out until the DM decides they are gone. Many monsters come back from the dead.

 

[4eTurnTracker]

That's why I was suggesting the need for a way to add generic monsters on-the-fly. If a player puts them in, just an identifier, an initiative count and the ability to add effects and conditions is needed. Of course, it would be useful for a DM to have level and role appropriate numbers generated if the DM needed it, but the basic feature needed to implement all the encounter data from the players' perspective is much simpler.

Ah, yes, I understand.

If killed, monsters disappear from the initiative tracker? Or do they just get automatically hidden? I think it would be better to just grey them out until the DM decides they are gone. Many monsters come back from the dead.

How true! At the moment, monsters are removed from the encounter when they die. But, I have it on my list to change this for the next version.

 

[Thraug]

Ah, yes, I understand.

How true! At the moment, monsters are removed from the encounter when they die. But, I have it on my list to change this for the next version.

Make an option to enable/disable that on the fly (seeing dead or not; allowing it to be turned on/off during combat, multiple times). In many of (our) combats the list of participants if very long, especially if I have minions in the combat. Having to look at a list of 15-20 combat participants, 90% of them dead, would be ugly.

 

[4eTurnTracker]

Hi Ferghis,

- also did not import level (level was left at 1 when importing a level 13 character)

I cannot repeat this bug. I think I will only be able to fix it if I have a copy of your character sheet. If possible, please contact me via the web-site.

 

[Ferghis]

If possible, please contact me via the web-site.

Done

 

[koesherbacon]

Are your DL links working? I can't seem to download it, even though it looks epically rad!


Maybe host it on a couple different sites? (Github, Google Sites, Dropbox, etc?)

I'd love to play around with this, I think it'll really make DMing easier!

Have you thought about transforming these into apps for iPhone/iPad/etc? I have a great initiative tracker now, DMTools, but I'm always on the look out for other apps. Variety is the spice of life after all, no?

 

[4eTurnTracker]

Are your DL links working? I can't seem to download it, even though it looks epically rad!

As far as I can tell, the DL links should work. However I have provided download links to a different host. Please give it a try: Other Download Sites.

Let me know if you have any further problems.

Have you thought about transforming these into apps for iPhone/iPad/etc? I have a great initiative tracker now, DMTools, but I'm always on the look out for other apps. Variety is the spice of life after all, no?

Would be great if I could find the time to do something for mobiles in the future.