Invisibility and Etherealness?

[ColonelHardisson]

Incorrect. Since the rules are silent on the matter, the default situation applies, which is that ethereal creatures are just as affected by invisibility as anyone else. The rule, essentially, is that there are no special exceptions for ethereal creatures.

Your argument isn't much different to saying that just because there are no special rules for how orcs take damage, that means the DM can make up stuff to fill the gap. No special rules are given for how orcs take damage, because no special rules are needed: they take damage just like everyone else.

Actually, as Olgar says above, the rules are not silent; they are vague on this particular issue. The relevant section in the Manual of the Planes, pp. 55-56, can be interpreted a couple of different ways. No, it's not a Core Book, but it comes the closest of any WotC book I know of to the subject.

 

[hong]

Actually, as Olgar says above, the rules are not silent; they are vague on this particular issue. The relevant section in the Manual of the Planes, pp. 55-56, can be interpreted a couple of different ways. No, it's not a Core Book, but it comes the closest of any WotC book I know of to the subject.

Note that invisibility is a glamer that affects the sensory qualities targeted object itself. It doesn't have any effect on creatures viewing the object (which is why it isn't affected by their SR, for instance). Thus its effects don't have to cross planar boundaries to be effective.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I think that's a good argument, and if it says something like that in the book - with actual text that can be quoted - then I'll concede that there is a definitive answer. Remember, the point of the thread is not to debate the subject on the level of how a DM's world works, but to determine if there is a definitive answer given in a WotC Core Book (or, actually, any WotC book). The deal is this; a player has been insisting that the DM's interpretation of things is incorrect according to the rules. It's a friendly discussion, so it's not like a clash of wills. We're just hoping to see a clearly-worded passage in one of the books that unambiguously defines this one way or the other.

 

[dkilgo]

I am beginning to think that this passage that you seek is, in fact, not in any WotC book around. Only because the question has never been addressed before. Now I think that this is something that might warrant being addressed in the FAQ, or something similar.

But, to get back to the subject at hand, I would have to say that what ever the current GM decides is how it is. A HOUSE RULE! What a concept?

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Well, yeah, I mentioned above that I'd just House Rule it, but the point was to resolve a debate in such a way that one side or the other couldn't say...well, pretty much what has been said on this thread so far.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Let me put it this way; I'm not saying I need a rule from the book for everything. The premise is that a player is firmly convinced that the rules clearly state, somewhere, that his answer is the correct one. A few of us are not so sure that the issue is addressed directly in the books. Think of this as more of a bar bet kind of thing rather than a real rules debate.

 

[dkilgo]

I understand now.

Thank you for posting this query.

But, why don't you and the rest of your playing party ask him to show you the exact rule that gives him this information?

Sounds simple enough for me.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I'm sure he's going through the books now. I just figured I'd put the power of EN World to work for me.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Let us know what his argument is. He may come up with a different tack than we have.

 

[dkilgo]

Very good point.

I think we would all love to hear what his argument is/was.