Invisibility and Manyjaws

[Hannibal Barca]

(SC p 138) If an invisible caster casts Manyjaws, is he still invisible?

 

[MarkB]

Tricky - but I'd tend to say "no". As an Evocation (Force) effect, the jaws are not independent attackers as summoned creatures would be, but direct manifestations of the caster's will, therefore he is the one doing damage when they bite. That constitutes an attack, and he becomes visible.

I could see arguments for the opposite ruling, though.

 

[shilsen]

I agree with MarkB.

 

[Hypersmurf]

You don't even need to go outside the Core rules to strike this issue - Flaming Sphere and Spiritual Weapon cause me the same headache, not to mention a +1 Dancing longsword...

-Hyp.

 

[frankthedm]

You don't even need to go outside the Core rules to strike this issue -Hyp.

Flaming Sphere- Creating one is fine, you'd stay Invisible until you slam it into someone. If you turn Invisible after that, you'll stay that way unless you drive the ball into a creature. If some foolish creature stays the straddling the ball while you turn invisable

Spiritual Weapon: you sick the spell on someone, as is what happens when the spell starts and Invisibility breaks. If you turn Invisibile after that you are fine until you redirect it or the spell kills a foe because the weapon returns to you, betraying your location like a glowing office assistant.

Dancing weapon: Invisibility breaks as you choose the foe the dancing weapon will attack. Since the weapon does NOT autotarget as Spiritual Weapon does, you will not be keeping up Invisibility if you want your dancing weapon to keep attacking

 

[Hypersmurf]

Flaming Sphere- Creating one is fine, you'd stay Invisible until you slam it into someone. If you turn Invisible after that, you'll stay that way unless you drive the ball into a creature. If some foolish creature stays the straddling the ball while you turn invisable

Spiritual Weapon: you sick the spell on someone, as is what happens when the spell starts and Invisibility breaks. If you turn Invisibile after that you are fine until you redirect it or the spell kills a foe because the weapon returns to you, betraying your location like a glowing office assistant.

Dancing weapon: Invisibility breaks as you choose the foe the dancing weapon will attack. Since the weapon does NOT autotarget as Spiritual Weapon does, you will not be keeping up Invisibility if you want your dancing weapon to keep attacking

How do you consider directing the sphere, spiritual weapon, or dancing weapon to attack different to directing a summoned creature to attack?

Out of curiosity, where do you find that you select the target for the Dancing weapon?

As a standard action, a dancing weapon can be loosed to attack on its own.

It's attacking on its own...

If some foolish creature stays the straddling the ball while you turn invisable...

Not that foolish - the spell only deals damage when you direct the sphere to enter a creature's square. If you're not directing it, someone can straddle it all they like...

-Hyp.

 

[frankthedm]

How do you consider directing the sphere, spiritual weapon, or dancing weapon to attack different to directing a summoned creature to attack?

-Hyp.

A summoned creature is another being, a new ally. It shows up knowing who your foes are. Directing it to attack a certain foe is done by telling it to do so. That still leaves the act upon the creature.

The spell effects and weapon don't listen to your commands, you are operating them with the spell or magic that birthed the effect

 

[Hannibal Barca]

You don't even need to go outside the Core rules to strike this issue - Flaming Sphere and Spiritual Weapon cause me the same headache, not to mention a +1 Dancing longsword...

-Hyp.


Smurf, are you saying that in the examples above you would rule the caster is still invisible?

 

[Canaan]

Think of Manyjaws not as a manifestation of tiny little jaws that you direct--they are invisible force constructs afterall. Think of them more as the caster focusing his attention on a foe and shredding him, kind of like Jean Grey in the last X-men movie. That should make the answer to the invisibility question pretty obvious

 

[Hypersmurf]

Smurf, are you saying that in the examples above you would rule the caster is still invisible?

I'm saying answering that question gives me a headache.

I don't see that the answer is as clear as Frank claims. If I can tell a summoned creature, who is compelled by a spell to obey, "Hit that man!", without breaking invisibility... then should not telling a weapon of force, compelled by the spell to obey, "Hit that man!" have the same effect?

-Hyp.