Hypersmurf said:
For the purposes of Invisibility, the term 'attack' includes those spells.
Attacks: Some spell descriptions refer to attacking. All offensive combat actions, even those that don’t damage opponents are considered attacks. Attempts to turn or rebuke undead count as attacks. All spells that opponents resist with saving throws, that deal damage, or that otherwise harm or hamper subjects are attacks. Spells that summon monsters or other allies are not attacks because the spells themselves don’t harm anyone.
Do we consider that Invisibility extends the general definition, or replaces it? Does a spell that an opponent resists with a saving throw, the deals damage, or that otherwise harms or hampers subjects break invisibility if it is not a spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe?
What does it mean for an effect to include a foe? We know that if a summoned celestial badger - the effect of a Summon Monster spell - deals damage to a creature, that this does not count as the spell itself harming the creature. So if a fiery ray - the effect of a Scorching Ray spell - deals damage to a creature, is the Scorching Ray spell itself harming anyone? Is this an effect including a foe? And if so, how is it different from Summon Monster?
-Hyp.
Good point. "Hamper" is not the right word then. Sanctuary does not hamper an enemy it protects you. Either way, the foe is neither the target (you are) nor can it be within the area of effect (this being a defined aspect of a spell; an aspect that does not exist within the Sanctuary spell).
Rays are a special case; they are not targeted or area of effect. The description of ray in the PH says "You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon." This is pretty clear, IMO; considering that YOU must make a ranged ATTACK with a ray, I would say that it must count as an attack by the definition above.
Invisibility also specifically states that causing harm indirectly is not an attack. An spell that creates a proxy to attack does not count (nor does sabatoging something that causes harm to someone). By this, a dancing blade, spiritual weapon, and summoned monster would never count, as all are pure proxies; the descriptions describe "it" attacking.
This appears to be the case with flaming sphere as well, though the water is muddied by the reflex save. Now, with the origianal question, Manyjaws on the surface appears to be an attack proxy spell. It is not however. The jaws do not make attack rolls; in fact no such roll is ever made. Additionally, the final sentences pretty much define it: "...jaws automatically hit its
target and deals 1d6 points of damage, or half that amount with a successful
Reflex save. A creature
targeted by multiple pairs of jaws in a single round makes only one saving throw, with success halving the total damage."
I would say that I'm leaning toward Manyjaws and Flaming Sphere negating invisiblity when the effect is targeted on a foe or area containing a foe.
Also, in reference to the quip above regarding checking to see if there is anyone hiding or invisible in an area by casting an area spell; this is completely valid and is accounted for in the invisibility description. "Attacks against unattended objects..."
Of course, in most environments, there will be creatures within the area that are harmed by a fireball so that would count IMO.
DC
